Ruin tech (Again)
 

It can't really be random can it. In a game I got three fighter techs after each others!

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

Yes it is random. The techs in the ruins are seeded when the map is created.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

If you roll a single, six sided die three times, there is only a 1 out of 216 chance of any particular combination of numbers. However, if one rolls a specific combination of numbers, it does not mean that the dice are rigged.

What you have happened upon is merely a quite fortunate string of events, nothing else. Enjoy it, and smite your enemies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

I prefer getting the Massive Shield Depleter and putting it on my boarding ships....the depleter and the boarding parties are both one use, so I figure..what the heck, no? Not something I do often (the randomness of unique techs factors in), but it's fun being able to knock out all shields (given a good enough mount and good accuracy) and board at almost the same time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I haven't really found a use for the other Uniques yet, but I have to agree that the Massive Ionic Disperser is kind of lacking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just my opinion...

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

I find that the Massive Shield Depleter is so expensive that putting it on boarding ships is counterproductive as soon as your opponent discovers self-destruct devices. You end up spending more than your opponent does unless there are *really* big ships around. Just my experience so far.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

Massive Ionic Disperser is awesome tech if found earlier on. Ability to strip all low level shilds and burn all engines at once is priceless. You may also keep in mind that component-specific damage is not transfered from one shot to another. Thus, you can fire zillion ID I (damage 10 ) on contra-terran engine (damage resistance 15) for no avail !

P.S> the numbers I use are from proportions, in plain SE they might be different. Sorry.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

I quite like putting the massive engine-killer on large weapons platforms. They get a good range and can immobilise pretty much anything before it can fire on your planet.

The only trouble with that is that if you don't have ships, fighters or long-range weapons to finish them off, you can inadvertently blockade yourself.

Of course this is with proportions where planetary cargo space is less of a problem. I might be more reluctant to use up that space for one of these weapons in a standard game.

But yeah, I think all the massive weapons could stand to be stand to improved. Maybe a little extra range..?

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

I think in P&N they have something like +100 to hit, on the basic principle of "huge anime plasma beam of death that cannot miss just because it's so big" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

Speaking of ruin techs, is Massive Ionic Disperser as completely useless as Massive Shield Depleter is? The only being able to fire once per battle thing really sucks. But, on the other hand, the 500 damage to engines will completely imobolize one ship... perhaps worth it when you have range on your enemy as I do... My general feeling is that Massive Ionic Disperser sucks, I just wanted to check it with the "experts" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 07, 2003, 13:41: Message edited by: teal ]

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

Now <u>that</u> would make them worth using!

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

massive planetary shielding. 5000 shield points. no vulnerable planets.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, if you put a tech in your research queue (doesn't matter if you've researched a single point on it or not), you won't find it in any ruins, but some other Tech.

So in your example, if you had 'Fighters' in your research queue, you wouldn't have gotten the Fighter tech.

(Of course, you could always get a terrible tech if you block what it should have been - that's why before you colonize some ruins, you should fill the 12 spots on your reserarch queue with all the Techs you don't want to discover...and you'll get another Tech http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

How could that be true if Ruin tech are, in fact, seeded at map creation.

This should be fairly simple to test. If the ruin tech is established at map creation it not be too hard to code a program, a cheat, that would search them out and tell you about them. Once the ruin tech is known, the player puts that tech in their research queue, and colonizes the planet. Then we know.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ruin tech is seeded. But it is in form "random normal tech", "unique tech number 1", "unique tech number 2"...

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh... So many things make so much more sense.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i have had several occasions where i was researching a tech and had it given to me by a ruin.
i was one turn away from completing level 2 in starbase construction when the ruin gave it to me. it automatically increased my que to research level three and kept the existing research points i had. only thing is i now had to wait several more turns to finish research level 3 since it was more expensive. i know i could have just reordered the research que but i figured i might as well finish off starbase construction since it was half way researched.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is completely wrong. Researching a tech area has no bearing on what is in ruins. It is quite possible to colonize ruins that give you nothing, because you already possess those tech areas that it would have given you levels in.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The beginning of the game locks in what techs are in which ruins. Try saving before colonizing one, and then reloading over and over again. It is always the same tech.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The beginning of the game locks in what techs are in which ruins. Try saving before colonizing one, and then reloading over and over again. It is always the same tech.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Horray, Fyron is wrong.
A day to remember!

Fyron, an experiment.
Make a map. Start an simultaneous game. When you are approaching a ruin that doesn't have "Ancient Unique tech" save the GAM file.
Run the turn, delete all but the old GAM file, try again...
You'll be surprised http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The only times youdon't get a tech is when it's a "Ancient Unique tech" that you already got.
The random tech ruins always gives you the number of random techs that you stated when creating the map!

(And yes, it doesn't matter if it's in the queue or not)

[ May 08, 2003, 19:44: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

Hmm... it seems as if you are correct. Rather shady to do something like that though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shady is my middle name... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

The Proportions ancient techs (I think all of them) are modded significantly. They require research after discovery, and tend to be a lot more powerful and useful at the higher levels than the unmodded Versions (except for Neural Combat Net, which I think is way overdone in the unmodded, so I reduced it a lot). Proportions' massive ionic disperser is also particularly useful because it can burn through ionic shields which would tend to stop most normal ionic weapons.

As for the unmodded "Massive Planetary Shield" - what a joke. 5000 unphased shield points isn't worth a facility slot, even if it were free. An attacker only has to do about 200 points of damage per turn to eat through that if the planet lacks other defenses. The same resources spent on weapon platforms will be more effective, probably even in terms of structure points, not to mention the ability to fire back.

PvK

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i have had several occasions where i was researching a tech and had it given to me by a ruin.
i was one turn away from completing level 2 in starbase construction when the ruin gave it to me. it automatically increased my que to research level three and kept the existing research points i had. only thing is i now had to wait several more turns to finish research level 3 since it was more expensive. i know i could have just reordered the research que but i figured i might as well finish off starbase construction since it was half way researched.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmmm....allright, maybe the *first* item in your research queue has been found in some ruins before.

BUT...

How about the Techs in the 2nd-12th queue slot - have they ever been found?

(As you can see, I don't concede defeat too easily http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

youch! it sounded impressive. guess i'll have to build weapon platforms with them. but what's the use of neural combat net? saving .8 turns at a training facility? nah, i'm a long term person.

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

DingoCat, having a project in your research queue has NO effect on ruins, period. It matters not which slot it is in.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">8 turns can make a huge difference in PBW games.

[ May 09, 2003, 06:03: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

dingocat. as fyron says it doesnt matter what slot. heres a test.
create a map using the editor.
select 1 system and mod one of the planets to match your races homeworld type.
on that planet under abilities give it ancient ruins with, i dunno say 100 in value one.
next select another planet and create a specific starting point for yourself. player 1.
save map and load it in a new game.
select your techs you want to research.
create a colonizer and colonize the world you modded. it should give you upto 100 tech advances. should be easy enough to see if it affects slots other than the first one being researched.
checkmate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Ruin tech (Again)
 

100 tech advances? Wouldn't it be nice to find one of those ruins early on...