Minor Racial Traits
 

Anyone have any nifty ideas for minor racial traits? Or new tech trait areas?

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Define 'nifty'... for that matter, define 'minor'! Racial abilities are going to be written into the game mechanics, so they can affect the whole game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That said:

1) How about replacing 'hardy industrialists' slight boost in production capacity with a real change in ability? Let them build ships at any world without a space yard.

2) 'Non-respiratory' -- This is a race that does not need to breathe, like Silicoids in MOO, and so treats all atmospheres the same -- even None! Should probably be as expensive as "Emotionless" since it's another sort of immunity.

3) 'Xenophobe' -- More or less like in Moo, you have very limited diplomatic options but woul dget some racial points back to spend on other things.

4) 'Xenophage' -- this one is a bit nastier. Like the Kzinti, you regard other races as food. This woul allow 'harvesting' other races as a resource when you conquer their planets, but cause a very bad diplomatic reaction from other races.

5) 'Fragile' -- A race that is so physically delicate that it cannot engage in ground combat at all. Not able to use troops, and no militia appear to defend planets when invaded. If enemy can land troops on the planet, invasion is automatically successful. Should returns lots of racial points to be used on something else. (The Amon Krie are good candidates for this. How do worms operate battlemechs?)

6) 'anarchist' -- assuming that the 'seat of government' feature so many of us want is ever implemented, there can be a special trait to not need it just like there is currently a special trait to not need space ports.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

All nice ideas. However as far as I see these new traits could only be implemented by hard-coded changes.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Addicts: A la Deep Space 9. The race fights really well as long as their addiction is available, but if the chemical/TV/X-box is destroyed, all units and ships (and planets?) suffer horrible minuses to their functions. This'll give them a moderate edge in combat, a definite defence against ship capture, but a really significant weak spot which can be exploited by other races.

I've tried to do this without hardcoding, but the problem is that other races could capture the addictant (facility or otherwise) and recieve all the benefits but would suffer none of the limitations.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So? How else do you expect a racial trait to be implemented?

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Change the tech tree related to that item. Like for religious for example, to make a new racial trait just change some techs, add new techs to the tree, and make it so that only a certain racial trait can access that certain area. I know how to do it I just not good at explaining it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm sure Fyron or someone else can explain better then I.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Does anybody use mechanoid currently? I think it would be great to add some additional abilities to the mechanoid trait to make it worthwhile. Perhaps a hidden increase in their farming capacity to represent their lowered requirement for organics, with a slight rebalancing by decreasing their mineral and/or radioactive efficiencies? Perhaps a ground combat bonus?

I dunno, but there has to be something better than they're simply immune to plagues... I've never bothered with plagues - gone right to the napalm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

for mechanoid. how about special repair coponents for ship similiar to ability in moo. or giving their crew quarters the ability to repair 1 component each.
question for racial traits. can you give a single trait multiple abilities? for mechanoid make it also a racial tech as well as the immunity to plagues.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So? How else do you expect a racial trait to be implemented?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am sure you know that you can create a new racial technology without hard code change as long as you stick to the existing abilities. But you probably mean by "racial trait" what is specified in the racial trait folder as "advantage" with unique abilities.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Check out Mechanoids in Adamant mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BM, I was more asking about ideas for traits that were possible to implement in SE4 without hard-code changes. Like Pack Rats, Big Thinkers, etc.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

How about some new merchant techs? Either revamping "natural merchants" or adding a new tech tree for merchant-style races. Include new facilities for privateers, or merchant defense convoys. For example, privateer facilities might generate a small number of intelligence points (say, half that of a same-level intel facility), lower happiness in a system by a small amount, and generate small amounts of resources. Merchant defense facilities could maybe increase trade with your allies, or just increase revenue and happiness in a sector by a certain amount. Maybe even generate small amounts of intel on their own for counter-intel purposes (or retaliation against privateers).

How about a series of "tech master" traits? They get access to better mounts or tech for standard tech items, to increase effectiveness by a slight, but noticeable amount. Maybe make "Economic", "Weapons", and "Defensive" masters, for better efficiency at resource generation, weapons/weapon mounts, and armor/shields/ECM, etc.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

You can't lower happiness in a system. Negative values for System Happiness abilities are ignored. They do work for the planet-only affecting ability, but one facility that increases happiness will make the negative be ignored.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Hmm...curious, that.

Well, could it be possible to make the privateer facilities strain relations between empires, or maybe have some effect on trade?

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Unfortunately not.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Curses.

Well then, some detrimental effect for the privateer facility would be nice. Maybe making it worsen the conditions of the planet or something. Maybe even reducing the planet's production rates or something in order to represent the privateers making off with scads of cash...

Or maybe make "privateers" a seperate racial perk from "merchants", and have the merchant defense centers the opposite (and somewhat equal) to the privateer centers.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

I realize this isn't a helpful new addition which requires no hardcode changes, but...

It would be nice to be able to mix and match multiple attributes for racial traits. For example, a trait which gives the advantages of Natural Merchants and opens a new tech area. Or maybe combo Emotionless Mechanoids.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Yes, that would be cool. Then, I could make Hardy Industrialists give SYs that have 15% better rates and give a 10% bonus to construction. You'd get 25% bonus still, and could sell 15% better SYs to other empires (or have them captured). As it is now, they have to be SYs that are 25% better, as I do not want to make you take two traits (that could get complicated and be prone to cheating with lots of traits done like that). And, I could keep the plague immunity from Mechanoids and make the trait give new techs and such.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree. The only way you can do it now is to make several racial trait for each of these at a cheaper cost so you can combine them. Example: Mechanoid 1 (immunity to plagues) for 500 points and Mechanoid 2 at 1500 points (universal colony technology) and Mechanoid 3 at 1500 points for emotionless. If you choose all of them you get a race that is immune to plagues, can colonize all planet types and has no emotions.
Clumsy but it works.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Who says mechanoids have to be emotionless? "Why, all my friends abandoned me in the carpark at Milliways for 50 million years :sob:... and did I ever mention that pain in the diodes down my left side?" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

My mechanoids aren't emotionless! They are thinking of automotons and not just robotic forms in general. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

"mechanoids... emotionless"

Do androids dream about mechnical sheeps ?

Sorry about the misquote, I've not Dick' (duhh, might be wrong about the author too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) book right here.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Fyron:
Supposing that I don't want to download Adamant Mod just to have a peek at the Mechanoid trait http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , would you mind summarizing the trait from that mod? Thx a bunch.

-jimbob

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Oh, and over in P&N (Version 3c rev 7 I think) SJ introduced some cool traits, some of which cost negative research points (I think one was called environmentalist or something like that. You end up having 40% less storage per planet because your race likes undisturbed streams and the like) I thought it would be great to have strip miners and slash and burn farming facilities, etc. Maybe "Locust Mind" or something. you'd get a lot of resources out of the facility or components, but they would all reduce the planetary value by 2, 3 or even 5% per turn.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

You can go to the Adamant web site:

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/adamant/

Though that doesn't tell you what the items do that the mechanoids get. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mechanoid Bridge: Repairs some components and provides Psychic Cloaking.
Immunity Lab: Plague prevention 1-5.
Labor Force: Cheap low tech facility that provides 5-15% increased resource production in the system.
Efficiency Algorithm: Provides up to 15% attack and 10% defense bonuses, stacks with sensors and ecm. 20 kT
Programing Language Research Computer: Improved System Computer Complex.

[ May 12, 2003, 05:59: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you are Marvin, there should be major penalties to happiness... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

That's martians, not mechanoids! Bumbling knave of a moogle! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif j/k http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Well, digging out my notes for Exodus (I'll have to get back to work on it soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), I've got the following, racial-tech-based minor traits:

MEGASCALAR ENGINEERS
-- several superlarge ship/base hulls; enhanced stellar engineering (ring world /sphere world); Megascalar SY components (huge, but bigger output)

MICROSCALAR ENGINEERS
-- larger unit sizes (fighters, etc). a few combined-effect special-purpose components. Microscalar (smaller, but same output) SY components.

ADVANCED MISSILES
-- weakened nonmissile weapons, but, very enhanced missiles and torpedo weapons, also enhanced antimissile weaponry.

ADVANCED CARRIERS
-- better carrier hulls and fighter hulls. Improved fighter components and launch bays. ?slightly weakened nonfighter weaponry? Improved antifighter weaponry.

PIRATE RACE
-- enhanced ship capture. Not as big a change as in P&N, but still an option ...

ADAPTIVE TERRAFORMING -or- ADAPTIVE BIOCHEMISTRY
-- enhanced climatology and atmosphere conVersion (including a starting, *slow* AtmosCon facility?)

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

All good ideas, but...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How would you go about that one? There are no individual settings for militia, only global settings in Settings.txt.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can't change what things affect your empire and what affect planets and such in regards to anger, esp. for a single race.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This one can't be done.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can not mod the effects of treaties at all (except the maximum trade percentages, but thats for all treaties).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Option one can be done, actually. You can make all but the basic theoretical techs non-racial. Then, other races can analyze components and gain the techs to make them. This isn't tied to any racial trait though, and can be done by all empires. You can also mod it to be based off of racial traits, but that gets very very complicated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The second level is impossible to do.

[ May 12, 2003, 19:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

Edit: Removing the ideas that Fyron said were impossible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif , here's the stuff that I assume can work:

My ideas:
Advanced Cargo Techniques
Cost: 1000
Ship components can carry 50% more cargo
(Not only would a Cargo Bay that usually holds 100kT now hold 150kT, but all other components with cargo space - Colony Modules, Satellite/Fighter bays, etc. - would see cargo space go up by 50% too.)

Sturdy Industrialists
cost: 1000
Ship components have 120% damage resistance

Enhanced Observation Techniques
Cost: 1000
All space vehicles can see into ships at most 1 sector away
(In other words, all ships have a built in Long-Range Scanner I)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[This] can be done... You can make all but the basic theoretical techs non-racial. Then, other races can analyze components and gain the techs to make them. This isn't tied to any racial trait though, and can be done by all empires. You can also mod it to be based off of racial traits, but that gets very very complicated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hm....could you, say, give 'Analysis Experts' their own Tech tree, one that has all the racial techs, except the theoretical ones? If I worked that out right, that would give Analysis Experts - but nobody else - the ability to Analyze (but not research) all racial techs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 13, 2003, 01:44: Message edited by: Dingocat85 ]

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

I played around for abit with more abilities similiar to the Hardy Industrialists. Example: Super Spy you gain 25% bonus to intel production or poor spy with a penalty. Play around with the costs. Several ways you can do it. Make it have higher cost than raising it the first 25 and then lower than later of simply have it be effective cost wise only after normal points are maxed out. Way to gain the extra abilities.

Part of the ballance comes in it being an all or nothing package unlike the small changes in normal ability score changes.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that it should be possible. All it really amounts to is a happiness bonus of 55%, right? Very similar to "artist" racial trait, etc.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Quote:

This one can't be done.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that it should be possible. All it really amounts to is a happiness bonus of 55%, right? Very similar to "artist" racial trait, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think the way I described Workers' Commune was misinterpreted... I should have said Mood affects production at a rate of 155%.

Mood is how Happy/Unhappy a planet is: Jubilant, Happy, Indifferent, Angry, etc.

The Happiness level you give your Empire during Empire-setup only changes how likely a planet's population will be jubilant, and how unlikely it will get mad & riot.

What Workers' Commune is supposed to do, is raise the production bonus/penalty that a Planet's mood creates by 55%. For example, if you look at the Abilities of a planet whose mood is 'Jubilant', you would normally see '+20% to production from population happiness'...Workers' Commune would raise that bonus to +31%.

(I hope Fyron misinterpreted it too, and realizes that it actually can be done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

No, I interpreted it correctly. It is still not possible. You can only mod the global settings for happiness effects. All races get the same modifiers from happiness levels.

Re: Minor Racial Traits
 

"Option one can be done, actually. You can make all but the basic theoretical techs non-racial. Then, other races can analyze components and gain the techs to make them. This isn't tied to any racial trait though, and can be done by all empires."

heh. If you're sneaky about it you can tie it to racials. Make THREE racial techs. One is available to anyone, one is Organic (for example) and one is the Analysis tech.

Organic weapons require:
Organic 1-5 (captureable racial)
Organic Weapons 1-10 (organics racial)

So the Anaylsis guys can't get the real thing. Then you mod in this..

Analysis Weapon X requires:
Organic 1-5 (needs a captures ship)
Analysis Tech 1-10

Since the ordinary empires can't get Analysis tech, they can't build the copies. And since the Analysis people can't get Organic tech without capturing an Organic ship, the trait works.