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(OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Hello everyone, first off please keep this topic serious. if it drifts away ill just ask it to be deleted. thanks.
i have some problems... and hope that some of you, at least half of which are more than twice my age, can perharps advice me about. Some background, in september '02 i immigrated, together with ymm family, to Canada. Now it've been almost 9 months since then. I find myself struggling to find friendships. Overally i am a relatively quiet person but this trait is acquired. I know some psychology and know how to deal with problems, and guess i would be able to get past through this - but i would appreciate some advice. At this moment im very depressed. I spend most of my days home, on the computer. playing games. While this *might* be okay for someone its not for me - in school (high school, 11th grade) i can not seem to be able to make friendships. As it appears i simply do not know how. Other side is i happen to like a girl. She's now a friend of mine but im afraid to try anything further... because chances are it'll fail (very social, very nice looking girl, much different from me) i'll lose her as a friend (most likely). this does add up to my depression. I am also suffering from lack of topics to talk about, with just about anyone (my interests kinda differ). I am not looking for pity, this is a problem i got myself into. But i want this solved. Any advice appreciated. And please, do not make me regret i made this post. I do not usually make such things, I simply trust you people to be serious. Thanks. [ June 20, 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: Taera ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
It's brave to post about something like this, although I'd take advice on the Boards for what it is worth.
I had a rough time in High School as well, but I did find friends who were considered "nerds" if you please. Some of these geeks are my friends to this day. Find out if these are any gamers in your school or in the local area. That is a way to find friends who share a common bond... if not, find another area of interest, like a sport, for example. Change your mindset and volunteer for something like Habitat for Humanity, or homeless shelter, or a local community project. You will feel good about yourself, and you can meet people this way as well. Oh and Last but not least, never be afraid to talk it out with someone. If your school counselor is not your style, find someone who is. Do this IN PERSON. 75% of communication is nonverbal. Too bad you are bummed out, but sometimes "just getting through" tough times is enough. Give it some time, circumstances will change, and so will your perspective. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
My teenage years were a lot like this. I assume you're a teenager- I'm not entirely sure what 11th Grade means. Forgive me if any of the following sounds patronising then.
The important thing about meeting people and making friends is to know and be comfortable with who you are, and unfortunately this is rarely something people learn before reaching full adulthood. That's why teenagers have such a rough time emotionally. Luckily we on the forums know you to be intelligent and creative, and those qualities will help you on your way and will eventually draw people to you. The main problem is that people of your age (man I feel old saying this=-) tend to value shallow things (looks, fashion, wealth) above more profound qualities. Anyway, my advice would be to diversify your interests a little. I know it sounds like a lame attempt to try to change yourself in order to "fit in", but that's not it at all. There's no harm in trying out some different things. That's what life's all about and you might find something you like. What you need to do (IMO) then is to take up another activity- one that requires you going out and attending a club or group. Football, chess, martial arts, amateur rocketry, voluntary conservation work... anything that gets you out of the house for a few hours each week. You'll meet people, practise your social skills and maybe find a subject to talk to this girl (and other potential friends) about other than computers/ gaming, which still carry something of a geekish stigma, unfortunately. You'll also (probably) get a chance to mix with older people a little more, which is a good thing. It's right for you to be looking for friendship among people of your own age, but at the same time I think there are certain social skills you can only really learn from adults. You might have to try out a number of different activities before you find one that suits you, but that's fine. It's all good experience, and experience is what counts. Eventually you'll find something that you can really get passionate about. Go to local sports and community centres and ask for a list of Groups that use their facilities on a regular basis. Local community websites can be good for this sort of thing as well. You're doing the right thing talking to us about it as well. Trying to cope with this sort of thing is really not easy, especially if you try to do it on your own. Quote:
EDIT: I hadn't read stone mill's post when I wrote this, so it seems we've come to similar conclusions independently. [ May 21, 2003, 16:45: Message edited by: dogscoff ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Hi there Taera, I'll say what I think even though you put some No's in my poll http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
I can recognize myself earlier in life in your description. All the girls I've been together with have taken the lead, myself I never dared take the initiative. My wife and I was friends for three years before she asked me what we were actually doing spending all this time together.... So I'm thankful to my Wife http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif What about talking to this girl about your current situation? About how hard it is to find friends, OR talk to her about how you really like her but don't wanna loose her as a friend... (Don't talk about both, that seems desperate!) Many have written about activities, if you are going down into a depression the first things one stop with are usually those that are fun, so if you used to do some things that you found fun but don't anymore, do them anyway!!! The activity is propably still fun but the lack of initiative is difficult. Take some person and use as a test person. See how far you can go without embarrasing yourself, talk about anything, it doesn't matter what, questions are usually a good thing. Ask them what they did this weekend, spin on that, was it fun, have you done it before, the key point is to focus interest on the other person, then they'll really like you! Active listening! For me my great break through was when I moved to another town and started a new school (17 years old), only two people there knew me as I used to be, quiet and shy. This time I decided to don't care. If I blushed, so what, girls like it! I talked and joked and went to discos, where I look like there's a severe case of electrical shocks sent through me, not a pretty sight, but I tried to ingnore the fact that I cared! I made a fool out of myself several times but I tried to not show that I cared, I tried joking it away, and it got easier all the time. Taking the initiative with girls though was a limit I didn't dare cross, but thankfully somehow I started to get more attractive the more I blushed and made a fool of myself! (I guess it's something with the maternal instinct, take care of the poor sod!) About at this time I started skydiving aswell, that also gave my ego a real kick and might be why I could do the things I did, I got an identity which I somehow had thought I hadn't had before, I needed an external definition of myself. (Made 500+ jumps before my first kid came and I stopped, met my wife while skydiving when I was 24 , first kiss in freefall) Later in life when I got my first kid I got my depression. It was too much with med school, a kid , a wife that was constantly tired and blamed me for everything from the dirty dishes to the cold weather (Tired post-partum women are not fun!). I had no time for anything fun. First I didn't know what had hit me but as my wife is a psychologist she saw what was happening. Then I started talking with most of my friends about how I was feeling, what a lousy person I was, a bad father, a bad student etc. No one backed away! It took a couple of months before it turned, I was never that bad that I had to stay away from lectures but I failed the exam that semester for the only time in my life! So to sum it up, Activities, things you would have found fun if you weren't sad. Talk, to your friend and family about how you feel, they can surprise you!. Talk to others, about anything, it get's easier and easier. (One can always start with something lame; "-I really wanna talk with you but I don't know about what, You tell me what we should talk about!" If you embarras yourself or make a fool of yourself so what, in a hundred years no one will know. And will embarrasing yourself make things worse than they are today. What can you gain and what can you loose, is it worth it? And finaly, don't give up! Edit again: One other thing I did that I won't recommend but that bears some thought. I stopped with computers. I had spent three years learning all about them, had imported my own Sinclair ZX-81 Amstrad CPC-464 from England and was a computer wizard, thought the teachers alot. I sold muy computers and started working in an supermarket. I never took advantage of my computer school training. I worked in the supermarket for a year, impossible not to meet people. My relatives thought I was mad, giving up a future proof field with good pay checks and becoming a shop assistant. After that I worked as a helper at a hospital for a year after military service, then I became a nurse's aid and eventually Med school. Then I talked to my wife about how I'd really liek to get a computer, but the risk is that i'll become asocial. She didn't udnertsnd that and said "Go ahead and buy it", she really regrets that! Still I haven't become asocial, but it steals some time from my family so I try to limit my computer time! About being shy and quiet, after ignoring it for a couple of years it goes away! [ May 21, 2003, 17:51: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Taera, I know what you are going through. When I was your age, I had a miserable time with relationships of all sorts, and especially with girls. Looking back, there are a couple of things that might have helped me, and a few things that I did do to help myself, that might be helpful to you.
First and foremost, realize that you are not the only person in your school who feels the way you do. There are others who also feel helpless when it comes to relationships. One thing that helped me, even though I wasn't very good at it, was to seek out others with similar interests and similar problems. For me, there were two places that got me going. One was the chess club and chess team at my high school. Not that I got along perfectly with everyone, but it was worth the effort and I was able to make good friends with similar interests to mine. The second place was church, as again, I was able to find people with similar interests to mine. While the places to find people with similar interests may be different for you, the point is to seek them out and become involved. Take advantage of opportunities at school. You are correct that you shouldn't sit around and play computer games all the time. You need to get out and do things with other people, even though it takes a lot of work at first. Now to the more difficult topic, girls.... (and especially the one you are interested in.) I just got a little advice from my wife (yes, even the most awkward of us can eventually find the right girl) about this. The most important thing is to not try and force the issue. I drove off a couple of girls I really liked when I was in high school and college by trying to impress them into liking me. According to my wife, the best thing is to be really interested in her (as a person, not as a girl, if that makes sense) and what she is interested in. If you really like her as a person, she will sense that, and like you back. Whether things ever progress beyond that is not for me to say from this distance, but a strong friendship is necessary for the relationship to ever progress further. If there really seems to be a friendship developing, then try asking her out to a very non-threatening thing, perhaps an event at school. If she says no, do not push the issue and your friendship should stay intact. Just keep building your friendship when you have the opportunity. Do not make the mistake I made and push the issue by telling her how attracted you are to her until the relationship is much further developed. Finally, if the relationship does not develop the way you want it to, it is not the end of the world (though it may seem like it). You are still very young, and there are a lot of girls out there. I met the girl I eventually married when I was 21, and did not convince her to marry me until I was 27. It took that long to build our relationship, but it was worth every day. I am truly fortunate that I did not get one of the girls I pursued before, as I now realize that they were nowhere near the match for me that my wife is. One thing that I regret is that I did not talk with my dad much about what I was going through in those years. Later, I discovered that he had had many of the same experiences that I had, and could have given me good advice, had I been willing to talk with him. I would recommend talking with your parents. Chances are they have some pretty good ideas of what you are going through. (I did talk some with my mother, whom I was closer to at that time. It was very helpful to get a female's perspective when dealing with girls. The most important thing I learned was that they are just as insecure as the guys are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Dogscoff: 11th grad is usually around age 17...
Taera: I'm in about the same position, have been all my life actually. I'm 17, just getting out of 11th myself. I had a hard time with friends, most of the time I felt like an outcast around other ppl. I was also an only child for the first 10 years of my life. (the 10 greatest years of my life lol) So I learned how to get along fine by myself. I stopped caring about what other ppl thought of me and I stopped trying to fit in. It took a while but I eventually found some friends, not many mind you but I did find a few. Just be yourself, like Dogscoff said, look for other comp nuts like us in your school or neighborhood. Trust me they are everywhere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Looking for new hobbies might help. The other guys said something about community service, like a homeless shelter or something. See if your school has a Key Club. Key Club is the largest high school orginization in the World. The Carolinas district alone (North and Souther Carolina) has 30 something divisions and 4 or 5 clubs in each one. See if you can get into one... Church is another good place to meet ppl. I met my current girlfriend at my church. However she lives 1000 miles away from me... I'm still trying to figure that one out myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif About this girl... Try talking to her about your situation. If she is a friend worth having she will try and help. Don't be pushy though.. If you need to talk, you know my email... And remember you've always got us in Legacies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif EDIT: Ack! two ppl posted while I was writing... [ May 21, 2003, 16:59: Message edited by: Chauron ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
On Dating
My test scenario: I would picture myself sitting across from her at the breakfast table, in the morning, on a weekend – 30 years from then. Not at our best grooming-wise, getting older and with no particular plans for the day. Do we still enjoy each other’s company, each other’s conversation? Do we still make the other one laugh? Probably too much strategic/long term thinking for most people, but it worked for me – the girl I married has grown into a wonderful woman and my best friend. Mentally, I had put the relationship into a healthy context from day one. On Friendship Get involved in activities you are truly interested in. Other people will respond positively to you socially when you are visibly engaged and enthusiastic. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Something else I just thought of, and it might not make a difference to you but there's a chance you'll find it helpful:
One way of building social/ self confidence is through physical contact. I'm not suggesting you go round hugging everyone but certain sports and activities can do wonders for your interaction with others. Contact sports like judo/ karate/ rugby would be good but they aren't suitable for everyone so if you don't fancy that, consider a first aid course or dancing lessons. In these situations you have to be close to people in a neutral, instructive setting which really builds your confidence. There is no embarrassment involved because everyone understands that the contact is simply required. Just another idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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And even if you are embarrased, so what? It won't kill you. (You won't sink through the floor, your heart won't stop, everyone won't laugh at you. It just feels that way) And dancing is really fun! Try rockn-roll dancing or jitterbug, that's hilarious. Tip!And everyone is so exhausted that they are red in the face anyway so blushing don't show! BTW: Edited my previous post, so if you've read it, re-read it! [ May 21, 2003, 18:16: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Taera,
These are great replies. Many of us are older so can talk from years of experience. I am 40 and I STILL make mistakes (social ect...), but I know that it is the way things are and that things will be ok. My High School years were the lowest in my life, I didn't have alot of friends either, I was more nerdy I guess. I remember asking a girl to a dance, and she started crying, I found out years later she didnt know how to say no, though it messed me up then, when I got older I wondered why she just couldn't say "No, thanks". So remember this, everyone your age is learning social skills, some will be better than others. In school we are told that not making mistakes is good (ie get good grades), but in "real life" mistakes are the only way we better ourselves (well as long as we learn from them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ). As Rutha said, if you like computers, perhaps you can go take some classes at a community college (we have fast start or some such that allows HS students to take college class's). Heck, don't limit it to computer courses. The dancing idea is a great one, you will get over being shy when you dance with older women taking courses. My Last idea would be perhaps look into something that you would never think of (or not see yourself ever doing). If you like reading books, join a book group that covers a complety different topic from what you enjoy... Good luck friend |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
thanks a lot to you friends, there is some great advice there and just cheering up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
it is very interesting, my mood goes way down every evening to the point of complete amotivation but goes back up to normal. then comes evening. Ah well, its not evening yet. I have posted here because i know some of you are of averagely my mindset and might have been through the same things i have right now. i see i was right, and im glad. i dont usually share such information but this time i've no regrets. just a notice, my situation is much worsened by the fact that this is a still new country to me, radically different from anywhere i lived before. while i got the grip on the language my spoken part still remains low. I guess i am lucky i got the right mind, i completely stopped all my fit-in attempts back in grade 5. from a source that isnt relevant i read "if you want others to like you you need to like yourself first. accept yourself as you are because its the only one you can be. only then you can change yourself". been amongst my guidelines since then. thanks again. i've been doing some things right, some not. there is too much good advice to comment on each. thanks. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Getting into Team sports like Soccer/Football/Basketball etc sorta forces you to work with other ppl... now on my team there are several idiots that I don't care to be around but there are a couple guys that I have alot of fun with and we work together rather well... [ May 22, 2003, 00:02: Message edited by: Chauron ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
The amount of ppl who have gone through the same sort of thing is amazing. I wish I'd had you guys around 10 years ago...
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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My senior year I was an exchange student to Sweden (ha Rutha). So here I am, an over weight kid that is not popular in school (rual Indiana) and go to Sweden, and guess what, I am popular because I am different, I loose weight, then while the U.S. is doing something in El Salvador there are protestors in downtown Boras against the U.S., well another american and I are walking by them and they try to pass us some propaganda and we told them in Swedish that we were Americans, though we made no threating gestures, they backed off fast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So...I was the same person as 6 months earlier, just in a different setting. I think the hardest thing will be language, more of the slang. I took English in Sweden and barely passed since American English is different from British English. I went to the movie Airplane, there is a spot where they say "its going to hit the fan now" and a pile of cow poo flies through the air and hits a fan, funny to me, but not so funny to my host parents. I dont know how to help you there, watch movies at home to get the idea of the local humor. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Ahh, Canadian humor...got to love it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
im trying, trying lol tho life in Israel gave me a little radical opinions on this and that lol and i often shock my social studies teacher http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
well i will get used to it, cuz canadians are (quote from a song) "too darn nice" lol yea, thanks again. as for ages - this is very funny (to me) but i only find mutual interests with people either younger or older than myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Well I think Israel has to be one of the hardest places to live. I can not imagine how people live any kind of normal life there (at least from my american point of view).
Keep a sense of humor when you come accross someone that is clueless about things you have experienced in Israel. A free country does not equal a smart population. There are many ignorant people out there, and as Fyron has pointed out, ignorant does not mean stupid, just lacks the proper information. It is good to talk about it also, as someone else has mentioned, I too wish I had talked about things at your age. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Also, try to get into sports/outdoors minded option classes; as almost any high school in the city will have them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Edit: Taera, on a side note, do you take ESL (English as a Second Language) Classes? If you don't, try taking up an ESL club. You'll find many people who'll understand you there, and you'll get to practice English. [ May 22, 2003, 01:27: Message edited by: TerranC ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Taera,
When I was 11 I moved to a different part of the country with my family. My first two years at the new school were definitely the worst period of my life. Later on I made some friends, but I had no luck with dating until I got into college (too shy, I could never think of anything to say to a girl). Here's some activities that helped me along the way : - Martial arts (for 2 years) - High school theatre (4 years) - Pen-and-paper RPGs (started 20 years ago, still haven't stopped) None of these activities seemed interesting at first, but they gave me some badly needed self-confidence and allowed me to meet people and make some friends. Pretty soon I was enjoying myself, I was still shy but it wasn't terminal any more. There is a very important epilogue to this story. There was this girl in my class who was very attractive, but we probaly spoke less than 50 words to each other during high school. When we had our 10-year high school class reunion she said something to the effect that she really admired me back in those days. So it's possible we never talked because she thought she had nothing interesting to say to me! Is that ironic or what ? My advice is similar to everyone else's, try different activities which will make you get out and meet people, even if they don't seem too interesting at first. Physical activity is especially important at your age because it will give you an overall feeling of well-being, which other people can sense so it will also improve your social life (I wish someone had explained this to me in these terms, my parents wanted me to practice sports but they never got beyond the 'do it because it's good for you' line). Don't be too hard on yourself. Making mistakes at your age is practically expected (this is something else I wish I had known before). Edit: Work on your personal life and think less about politics. My personal experience is that people, especially adults, will not listen to what you have to say about politics / economics / religion until you are 30, even if you have been saying the same things since you were 16. [ May 22, 2003, 02:07: Message edited by: Erax ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
and again, good advice.
and apparently the very fact that i posted it here helped me, surprising me quite a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif for one thing im now trying to maintain a positive attitude, doing 'positive' things - like saying hi to neighbours i dont even know or thanks to a bus driver - things i dont usually do. it all narrows down to physical activities and i agree that this is important. i, though, have never been active in that area - it simply wasnt the trend in israel -- soccer was but THIS soccer.. no thanks (big, dumb, strong were all the products of this sport. no exceptions. almost.) it is a change in my life that is yet to come but i hope it will. Re:ESL - i took ESL first few months, as my guidance councellor insisted. was a laugh, i practically did nothing there. my speaking skills are getting generally better with time because i dont speak russian a lot in school and none of hebrew. considering my hebrew experience ill never become absolutely fluent in english but im getting better. and after all, people find my accent amusing which is just fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Re: school activities - im aiming for high-grades and good university. i also only have 2 high-school years instead of three. im missing all phys.ed classes in Canada because i simply do not have space for them -- i have only one subject choice, in the end of grade 12 - and i want psychology there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif always enjoyed psychology... Re: Church - not a religious person, plus russian-orthodox christianity background. do not go to church, at all. Re: politics - hehe, i dont care about politics... just some general views on some aspects of life. but your right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
even if being socail doesn't come natural, you can still learn the rules...and humor's great. just make sure you know what kind of humor your good at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Then, after nearly getting beaten up one New Year's Eve- I went to a karate class. I loved it. It really changed the way I felt about myself, and for a short while I had a body like Jean-Claude Van Damme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif One day I'll find that guy who nearly beat me up and thank him for introducing me to martial arts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Anyway, I've been doing karate on and off for about 6 or 7 years, and I've now moved on to judo, which is just as good. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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you must have at least a 2nd Dan-jo. Which style? I took Karate since i was 12, then I got drafted by the IDF, and while serving I took the 1st Dan-Jo test, just to be able to say that I have a black belt. But I officially quit, I haven't learn anything since then. I guess I'm never gonna get the 2nd or 3rd Dan. Getting the 1st was hard enough, and I have forgotten a lot of the non-practical tecniques that I had to learn to pass the test. Joshimon style, by the way. I've heard that the Shotokan and the ****o-ryu are the most populars in Europe. . |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
I used to dwell on High School, going over it in my mind again and again. I came to the conclusion that, if I had to opportunity to 'go back through' that period of my life know only one thing that I know now, I would want to know how little all the things I worried about ended up mattering.
Once, when I was out with some friends, this specific subject came up and a friend voiced the same opinion I had. I was about to comment on how eerie or meaningful that was when another fellow spoke up to say that he'd rather tell his younger self "Deal coke, not weed"... which completely sidetracked the conversation. That said, I agree with what so many others here have said: the best step to getting out of depression is physical activity. It changes your chemistry and gives you strength on a variety of levels. I have always been puzzled by how well others seem to understand each other, always under the impression that they expected a degree of communication in which I simply had no experience. The young lady I'm currently seeing has told me that I have no social sense, no intuitive understanding of others, no connection to the common mind. It is directly because of this that I am a very social person. I have strove to gain an intellectual, conscious awareness of body language, tone, and implications. I have elevated my social skill to the point that I am regarded as odd and amusing rather than frightening or repugnant. Yay. I believe that the way I have developed would help anyone with any sort of social troubles and it is a simple solution: make people talk. If you are at any sort of gathering (family, social, religious, sacrilegious) and you notice that one person standing, sitting, walking (but not ever dancing) by themselves approach them and try to get them talking. Question their interests, question them about their interests, find out how strange and new things work, ask them about their political interests. The goal here is not to 'talk with' someone, but to get them talking. This will require you to respond on occasion, and to prod fairly frequently. Failure to speak with one of these wall flowers will have little to no consequences; success will result in a raised level of confidence, increase in conversational skill levels, and maybe a new friend or at least a friendly acquaintance. Next move on to strangers. Pick people doing work that does not require their entire attention, so you have less of a chance of 'bothering' them. Retail floor personnel, street vendors, anyone who looks like their day could use a little more excitement is a good choice. Start with a blunt approach, so they know what you want: "Could I ask you a few questions?" Ask them about what they do, how they got there, if they went to school for it, how they track inventory. By this time your conversational skill should have advanced to the point that you have a much easier time 'making friends'. Remember the key to being seen as a 'good conversationalist' is to make the other person feel like talking. People like it when someone want to hear what they have to say. Now you should read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", and American self-help book from the early twentieth century. It is targeted for sales personnel, so don't be surprised if some of it isn't exactly applicable, but it is a highly helpful book. To work on more complicated conversational techniques, play games with strangers. Really this all started with a game: "Make the Stranger Talk". One I like is "Name Tag Collection", where I try to talk complete strangers into giving me (or selling me) something insignificant but personal, like their name tag. This requires that the person is something of a captive; retail personnel and theme park employees are best really. This is also good practice at talking to girls: males react to this game as though I am threatening them in some way, while girls do not get threatened for some time. Also, since you are laying out your goal immediately, they don't spend as much time wondering what your really after, not right away, anyway. Don't study them before you approach them, as this will give them time to notice you and start wondering, worrying, or calling security (just kidding), just walk up and ask "May I ask you a question? Would you get in trouble if you lost your name tag?" Another good one is "Get a job". Go into a place of business and ask if they are hiring. You don't really want to work there, you're just doing this for the experience (but don't' tell them that). Ask them what they do, what the hours are like, but don't ask about pay. If they offer you an application, take it, just to keep the game going. Your goal here is to get an interview right away, so ask if there's a manager there to speak with. Now take the interview like you need the job. The great part is that you don't, you don't care. This puts you in a position of power that the interviewer won't be expecting and is great fun. It will also help you develop good interviewing skills, as you're never as secure or ready to learn when you're in the middle of a stressed-up for-real interview. A good game to help you with inhibitions is "Sing First, Then Sell". When a telemarketer, surveyor, or charity calls on the phone, tell them that you will listen to their spiel, but only after they sing with you. The two of you will have to have a few songs in common for this to work. IF they don't immediately agree (and they never do), talk about what song you could use for a minute. Since they're still not quite ready to sing with you, tell them you'll listen if they join in on the chorus and just start singing. You don't have to know all the words or even have the melody quite right. In fact, if more fun when you aren't singing the song right. Then pick the areas you want to work on, make up your own games, and stat adding a moment of sureality to some strangers world. I don't' know if this will help you but I encourage you to give it a try. Talking with people who you will never see again is easy because it won't matter if you screw up, what're they going to do? |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Taera, I had very similar experiences in high school (it seems like many of us did). Now that I'm more than twenty years removed from them, I have a sense of perspective about them, but (surprise) they still hurt. I wouldn't go through those years again if you paid me. So, if it's any help, you're not alone in your experiences.
I'll bet, though, that you have a much better time of it at the university. You'll have a much better chance of meeting like-minded people, and he straight-jacket of conformity is a bit looser there because everyone is exploring their identities a bit more freely. Also, there are more diverse students and lifestyles, not everyone has come from the same place. So, you have something to look forward to, but that doesn't help you now. You've already got some great advice about that, so I'll just add a couple of things here. I have just recently started judo, and it's great. The physical activity is excellent for my depressed moods, it gives me a nice sense of mental and physical balance, and I feel more self confident dealing with people. I really should have done this when I was your age, when I really needed it (I was the hallway punching bag when I was 13). There are plenty of good martial arts available, from aikido to taikwondo, with a wide range of styles, levels of aggressiveness, and philosophical/spiritual levels. Just something to think about, anyway. About your attractive friend - I can't stress enough what others have said here. These things take time, and friendship is an excellent way to begin a Lasting romantic relationship. My wife and I have been together for 18 years, been married for 11 of those, and she's still my best friend. Listen, really listen, to what she's telling you. Trust and good communication are the building blocks for a good relationship, and you'd be surprised at what she'll tell you about her hopes and fears if you are open to them. Eventually you will know her well enough as a friend to know if there's romance ahead. And even if there's not, you'll still be able to discuss it with her because you are good friends. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, hold on to your dreams. Even if it takes some time, you can make them happen. For those of us who have a tough time in high school, life does get better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Taera,
first off all (as other people on this forum) i didn't have an easy youth. To much to sum up here but sufice it to say that i can relate to some of your comments. The impression that i get from your story is that you used to have a nice social life in your homecountry. If that is the case, the problem isn't your social skills rather a problem adapting to the country you're in. And maybe like you mentioned not having mastered the language in such a level so you feel confident to talk to complete strangers. Anyhow, join a sportsclub, computerclub, chess club anything that makes you leave the house. I for example tend to be a loner yet i like people too. So i drive myself out of the house: i have started my own indoor soccer team (we are playing the cup final in the competition we are in, woohoo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) and i took up American Football here (Belgium). Choose something you like and join a club. really. This will let you meet people with the same interests and that will put the focus on the sport, or what the club does and not on say, you not speaking perfect english or whatever. After you have a few friends, you automatically meet friends of those friends and the ball starts rolling. As for the girl, i wouldn't try anything if you're not at ease with yourself. Make sure you feel allright about yourself before you try anything. Otherwise it will make a relationship harder and i talk from experience. Nearly ended my relationship with the girl that now is my wife http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But if you feel so super strongly about this girl that it hurts, i would make sure my feelings are genuine ( not a simple crush that goes away after you see another beautiful girl) and then talk to her. If you talk to her, do not immediately say: "i'm in love". Start with something humorous and give little hints that you like her and that you find her beautiful. It will give her time to adjust and not be overwhelmed. And when you go for her, be prepared to lose her friendship although i know plenty of people who experienced something similar and are still friends with the person that had a crush on them. So it's possible to stay friends. Hope this helps |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Oh, and shotokan- always shotokan. And Loser- Do you really play those games? LOL! |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Hmmm... maybe I should rename a couple of neutral races, scan in some images from my old yearbooks and start a Genocide Game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
it is very funny how my thinking differs from time to time - better say mood to mood - i guess thats what they all talk about when saying 'teenagers' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
yes, obviously this thread helped me. (notice - the following post is made in one of my good moods. it also has a big load of me talking about myself which is very uncommon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) minipol, your impression is correct. i had a fine social life in Israel but i didnt take the right path ehre and there.. and it had built over a long time and a lot of suffering in school. bad times i dont like to think about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif for my situation now it seems i've been pretty lucky - untill grade 8 i have almost never been beaten lol (only by big Groups) and then i abandoned all violence from my side because i didnt like it. at all. and i managed to live since then without a single quarrel with people. and i took to great pains to remove my naturally high shyness -- and surprisingly for the Last year-and-half ive been very successful. i taught myself not to be shy with girls and been successful so thats not an issue. what is is my lack of experience in beyond-friendship boy-girl relationships but hey, im only recently turned 17 and will have chances to learn, i guess. just sometimes i feel very bored and very lonely on those evening lol because theres nothing for me to do *sigh* ohwell. Thanks for the advice regarding karate and stuff. frankly as i said ive been avoiding fights and now dont have any knowledge there should i get into trouble (and my demeanor sometimes takes me to risks lol but ive been lucky till now) and i've always been interested in martial arts... just never took any. ahh crap thats a lot of positive talking aint it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif that girl... i wont talk about that much... but i usually talk to her every day -- that is, via MSN. she's a rare kind of computer-literate girl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif we'll see where it goes. for now, i have a good mood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif EDIT: minipol, thought over what you said (possible fast-forgettable crush) and thought i'd add - what you said, i've considered the option too, doesnt seem so. [ May 23, 2003, 01:48: Message edited by: Taera ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Taera, you should try these just for the language work. With a Russian accent you might even have an edge to play that I never would. I am very proud of my name tag collection. The best is from Lisa in Disneyland; that one took flirting to get. Most actually come pretty easy, or just don't come at all. The rejection is part of the learning experience. My friends often hand me the phone, should I be at their house when they get a solicitation call. They all love it when I do strange things to strangers, and the person on the other end of the phone usually can't do anything. As soon as all their employers start letting them hang up it will be much more difficult to play this game. I once brought a stop to all other conversation and activity, including corner-necking, at a party with my show-stopping horrid performance of "Sweet Caroline" by Neil Diamond; I don't know all the words (mumble bumble) and make noises for the fanfare (BA Ba ba). It was my finest moment that month. I originally got the idea for "Get a Job" from "American Beauty". I didn't really want the no-stress McDonalds job, but I decided to see what the interview would be like: what fun! Try it! There is another good game for learning human behavior and social signals, but it's kind of dangerous: Poker. That'll teach you a few things. Just never play with fools or sharks, never bring money you can't lose, and if you go to a casino never ever play at the table with the local retirees. The most important game is "Make the Stranger Talk". That's the game that started it all and the one that make it possible for me to talk to strangers today. It has also forged interesting and unexpected bonds with some usfull people. Some... [edited for content and formatted to fit your screen] [ May 23, 2003, 03:56: Message edited by: Loser ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
loser, i can see how good those games are but thats not me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif its not my personality-style jokes/games yet still thanks for the advice.
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
You are quite welcome.
Looking over what I've written, I guess it wouldn't work for anyone who doesn't play the part of the clown.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Oh well. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
forgive the people you hate...hate over even short periods of time does way more damage to you than to them. i'm doing that, and i'm alot happier.
besides, if your so annoyed all the time that you occasionally growl at annoying people, that's not good. if i went out more, i might have introduced some suriealty into some peoples lives. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
1 hated person (completely mutual and complete personalities conflict. one thing i dont regret leaving in Israel) since four years ago. i learned that lesson, thanks.
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Q: how to deal with amotivation/'lazyness'?
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Since you mentioned feeling 'down' in the afternoon, it could just be your daily cycle. Sun Tzu wrote something about the army being ready to fight in the morning and useless by nightfall, so it's nothing new.
Regular physical activity will give you an extra 'zip' which Lasts the whole day, even during the down-part of your cycle (that's what's so great about it, you'll feel better even when not exercising). Improving some aspect of your situation (making some friends, for example) will reduce frustration and help fight depression. About the girl... you said she is a very social person, but I get the feeling she isn't dating anyone else. When you feel you are ready, you could begin by asking her just that - 'You have so many friends, how come you aren't dating anyone ?' It's a classic line, it gives her a pretty good idea of your intentions but it doesn't commit you to anything, and her answer will help you decide what to do next. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Andrey, there should be a large Russian/Ukranian/Jew diaspora in Canada.
You can probably find few people with close mentality. When I lived as a student in US, I had no problem finding compatriot students ! Cheers, Oleg. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Ok, a tip from my wife the psychologist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
Brainstorm what activities you can see yourself doing instead of sitting home doing nothing (well, almost nothing). I e going to the cinema, library whatever. Pick one of these activities that you feel is reasonable to to, then plan when you will do it. For example, "I'm gonna see matrix reloaded, even if I'm going myself", "I'm gonna do it saturday evening" (preferabbly as soon as possible, for example tomorrow. If you feel like it then ask someone if they want to accompany you but thats not mandatory. What is mandatory is to do that thing when it is planned, no matter how tired/unmotivated you are. Then when you come home you check what it was like. Was it better to go or would it have been better to stay home (Preferably you'll end up with - Better to have gone!). Then plan another activity, and so on. The important part is to do first and feel later. I e, "I don't feel like going to the cinema" (Crap!) -> Go to the cinema first and then feel if you felt like going after you've been there. Post here and say how it goes, if you have to do that the chances of you doing it are bigger (or mail me if you don't wanna post public) So you can post here (or mail); Tomorrow, movie Matrix and then the next day; Went to Matrix, was fun, Tomorrow going biking with (the girl/friend). [ May 23, 2003, 16:23: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Erax: daily cycle? just as well possible. as for the girl, she isnt dating someone but she has a crush, as it seems, on that guy - some friend of a friend IIRC, from another province. complicates things doesnt it :-/ but yea she broke with her b/f some time ago
Minipol: im too inquisitive and investigative for my own good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif im trying to put myself into the "act" position tho. as for amotivation, well, thats the first time in my life im suffering from it. what i mean is complete lack of wish to do anything. no, thats wrong. i _WANT_ to do something but cant get myself to. Oleg: i dont get along too well with russians as it stands. israeli/russians (i mean, those who are both) have quite a different mentality. i will be though looking into that when a chance arises. Ruatha: interesting idea, i might start doing it. as i said previously i dont commonly talk about myself too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif but maybe. as for matrix i've seen that one, with the same girl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif what yes, there's the financial problems on my side. i cant burden my parents ATM and im only now starting to look for a job One thing that stops me from doing some things is that i am not a loner... neither am i a crowd person. i simply cant make myself go somewhere alone, which is a bad thing i know. what i mean tho, i dont like to go outside on my own or go to movies on my own etc. |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
Hmm. That's a tough one. Getting yourself motivated is the clue. And to get yourself motivated you need to know exactly what you like to do. For instance, you like SEIV and what do we see? You spend a lot of time on this forum and you invest time to play the game. So obviously you're not amotivated or lazy because you do stuff but you probably only do stuff that you like. (who doesn't?)
Get some other interests, set some goals. Doesn't matter what. On the other side, it's kind of normal to feel "amotivated/'lazyness" when you're only 17. That's normal. I think nearly everybody went through that fase. Also, i even have that now and then. And about girls, like you said, you're 17, you've got plenty of time. Also, you seem like a person that analyzes a lot of stuff that happens around him. If that is the case, try to not over analyze stuff. Can really start to annoy you. I used to do that and even know and then i have to say: "minipol, stop processing those thoughts over and over and over again and DO something about it rather than thinking about it all the time". It helps. Sometimes i have to use voilence to make my brain listen to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
yes and no, most russians here are not from 'russia' but from southern countries like Kazahstan. While its okay i dont have anything in common with them. The 'real' russians are sons of 'new russians' tho. yes.
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
haha are those things are realy any good?
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
and willpower helps alot. i have 'blah' days or hours sometimes, and i just tell myself 'if i do this, i'll enjoy it.' then i do whatever it is.
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
EDIT: what i posted was pointless... i edited it to make more sense
i have developed myself a strong willpower over the Last few years that helped me a lot - i often had been able to overcome the, as narf said, 'blah' moods. lately it've been kinda crushed by evening depression - ironically evenings are the time when im doing things, like 3d modelling or doing hw or writing letters or ANYTHING. im a night person, usually my inspirations strike me after 10 o'clock and im motivated to do stuff. right now i have hard time finding myself anything to do at evenings. i dont know the reason though, i did always spend many of my evenings at home. [ May 25, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: Taera ] |
Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
maybe your getting bored with your evenings?
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
maybe
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Re: (OT) Some advice for me / My Depression Thread / Thanks forumers
I'm not sure I agree with that Red Bull advice. I mean maybe it would work well for you but it just makes me think of this girl I used to know who was utterly dependent on "proplus" caff tablets. She was working really long hours (we all were) and she was unable to function without taking huge doses of this stuff and believe me she was damned scary- an unnatural amount of energy and mood swings like you wouldn't believe. Not good.
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