Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

Started a new game vs. the AI Last night and thought I would try out being a suicidal/psycho ramming race. This actual works much better than I thought it would. Problem is that the targets the ramming ships choose are just screwy. They always seem to pick the "strongest" ship and will go sailing off towards that ship even though it is slow and in the back of the opppenents fleet and will get chewed up and eaten for breakfast as it goes past the smaller ships in the oppenents fleet. I want my ramming ships to ram the nearest ship so that they can do some damage before getting blown out of space. I spent a long time screwing around with strategies, but it doesn't seem that anything you tell it to do in the *targeting* portion of the strategies will effect the target of the kamikaze attack. If you put a direct fire weapon on your ramming ship it will just fire at those little ships it passes on its way by... :| So is there any way to alter the targets of a ramming attack or am I just out of luck? A little bit of testing seems to reveal that boarding attacks are the same way.

Note: I always play simultaneus move/no tactical combat even vs. the AI.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

Yes, and you were close.

In the strategies menu, under firing, you need to change the Targeting Priority. It generally defaults to something like Strongest, nearest, most damaged, has weapons or some such nonsense.
You need to change the Ramming strategy (or is it named Kamakazi?) to be something closer to Nearest, has weapons, strongest, most damaged. Of coarse, you can tailor it to your needs, but if you want to have them attack the nearest ships, then make sure the first entry is Nearest.

Also, check the newbie FAQ sticky thread, I'm sure there is a section in there about the strategies screen. Heck, I probably need to check it to refresh on some things! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did that. The result was as I described. The ships continued to steam full spead ahead to the big ship in the back of the fleet. Ignoring the little ships in front of them even when their targeting priorities were set to "nearest, weakest, has weapons, etc." If I put a direct fire weapon on them then they would fire on these weaker ships as they past, but still ram the big ship in the back. I'm a bit confused by this myself... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

If you where about to die, would you choose to go with a little bang taking out a small ship or would you aim for the biggest meanest ship, trying to make your dent in history?

I say that the ships of yours are run by people, who wants to remembered.
Sitting there at the helm they see their orders;
"Nearest / Nearest / Nearest / Nearest", - No way ! they exclaim and heads for the juicy target instead.

If you start writing songs about the crews of the ships that ram the small enemy ships you might see a difference. Try it!

[ May 25, 2003, 15:15: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

Do you have the ramming ships in a fleet? If so, they will try to follow their fleet strategy instead of their ship strategy unless you marked them to break formation.

Generally speaking I mark all my strategies to have everything break formation. However, there are a few instances when this is a bad idea.

1)Capturing planets
2)if your attack ships have different speed Ratings, and this is NOT a WP battle.

Again, I suggest the Newbie FAQ.

[ May 25, 2003, 15:51: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why is this a bad idea? I have my planet capture fleets break formation and it seems to work wonderfully. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

Yeah... breaking formation is a good idea for capture planet strategy, not a bad idea. It allows ships to all get as close to the planet to destroy WPs as fast as they can. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Just make sure all troop transports have capture planet strategy, and it works perfectly fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

If you have a large number of ships in the fleet, they can block the way for your troop transport to make it to the planet; in or out of formation. The situation is worse if they are not in formation or you have a very "tight" formation with no room for the TT to get through. If your Troop Transport can't get next to the planet, no troops can land. For large fleets I recommend staying in formation, and pick a "loose" formation that can allow the TT through from behind since the TT initially runs away and usually has to get through your fleet to make it to the planet.

Slick.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I hardly ever see that happen. Picking a starting formation that has lots of spaces in it, such as the V shaped one, typically eliminates the problem for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif 50 some planets conquered in one game, and the problem you speak of only happened once, when I was using the Phalanx formation.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I stand by my recommendation. If the number of ships is large, they will crowd around the planet in trying to destroy the WP's. The planet doesn't even have to be surrounded before the TT get's stuck. If the side of the planet that the TT approaches from is blocked, the TT gets stuck and the initial formation is irrelevent.

Slick.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I know what you are trying to say, but it happens so rarely in my experience that it is not an issue. Breaking formation is still IMO a better idea.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

Oops. Fyron is correct on this one. I must have gotten my wires crossed. It happens occasionally on older, obsolete models such as myself, particularly if regular maintenance is neglected.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1) They're psycho people 'cause I said so in the race description. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

2) Where is this "compose song" button? I can't seem to find it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I would use it if I could find it!

Let's not forget my original question here. Any way to alter the targeting of ramming vessels (i.e. what the ramming vessel wants to ram, not what it shoots at)? I am starting to think that the answer must be no... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Edit to answer question: The ships are not in a fleet. Most of this testing has been done in the simulator. Is it perhaps different in "real" life?]

[ May 26, 2003, 09:39: Message edited by: teal ]

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

The problem seems to be that the ramming ship doesn't change its target. It just decides to ram one ship and even if a better target comes near it still tries to ram the original target.

Same problem is much worse with drones. Drones should always ram the nearest target because otherwise point defence will take them out in no time. I stopped using drones when I saw that just a few ships can destroy huge amount of drones if you have bad luck and the drones decide to attack a bad target.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I think ramming does use the targetting orders to determine what to ram. However it doesn't work exactly the same way. Not sure what the whole story is.

Maybe I'm wrong, though.

PvK

[ May 27, 2003, 04:23: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I just had a thought...it would be so cool if boarding actions were a subdivided into tactical combat, but then...it would take forever for combat ::

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

you do realize this thread is a month old do you

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

Teal - Did you ever try this with the targeting priority set at "nearest, nearest, nearest, nearest" I have notice in the past the my ships would ignore the first targeting priority and skip to the second for unknown reasons.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I just tried this in the simulator with targeting set to nearest, nearest, nearest, nearetst. The results are the same.

Situation: Enemy fleet has one BB armed only with minesweepers and 7 Light cruisers armed with PPB5. I have 15 Light cruisers armed only with armor and engines, set to ram with targeting priority nearest, nearest, nearest, nearest. In the simulation the BB runs for the corner, the ramming ships run after the BB and the PPB ships slaughter the ramming ships without taking any casualties. Take out the BB and its a whole different story. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This is really annoying actually. The all armor and set to ram strategy works decently well against an enemy who is well trained and/or maxed on defense when you are not. But it is so easily counteracted just by putting one of your support ships on a bigger hull that it's not even worth trying to do! Strike one for strategic diversity... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

"nearest, most damaged, fastest, strongest" (or weakest) works pretty well for ramming ships.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I wonder if anything forces ships to re-evaluate "nearest" or "most damaged"... would having a fired-upon ship re-trigger this?

Also, I wonder about the economic ramifications (no pun intended) of building megatons of one-shot (usually) ramming ships.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

I guess it depends on how long your ships survive...the initial build up could be extremely costly (just in terms of the massive numbers of ships you would need to build to make this an effective strategy), but once you enter combat - lots of those ships aren't going to make it back.

After a certain point, I believe you'd see a negative ship balance, as it would be hard to replace what was lost - when stardard & more survivable designs would Last longer in a protracted war. As a Last ditch defense or as a diVersionary tactic (to get your opponent to change his designs & then hit him with a conventional attack) it might work.

In my current game, with lots of excess production potential, I am think of building a suicide fleet, just to go after my opponent's carrier fleets (with more than a few fighter traps - all PD & direct fire vessels). I plan to burn my way through the fighters & catch the carriers against the side of the tactical combat screen.

I'm still running the simulations to see if it will be worth the time and effort necessary - although the crash-doubling of my fleet might render the point moot.

Re: Boarding and Ramming Targets
 

In most cases where you want rammers, normal ships won't do you any good because the enemy is so advanced and has so much point defense you can't even -hit- him.