Moo3 is a shareware now
 

No kidding - just look here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...e&s=videogames

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Are they pushing for market share?

Would it make any difference?

What on earth is that about?

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Well from the comments I have read on their forums I'd say they have found a price the market will bear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not so sure about that. It may still cost to much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Something we can agree on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

We'll know for sure if it was overpriced if they drop the price again before the $20.00 rebate expires.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

and I paid $49.99 for that piece of junk... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

oh well IIRC that's what I thought about SE4 after the initial thrill wore off... honest, I was pretty disappointed with the single-player game... but then I discovered PBW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But with MOO3 the initial thrill Lasted about 10 minutes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Maybe someday I'll play MOO3 again... I doubt it though, from what I hear the patch won't be updating any of the really major problems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

perhaps some one can pick it up for me... as i do not live in america.....

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the list of fixes for the patch is like 2 pages long... they've fix like all of the major problems, and tuned up the UI a lot too.. check the forums, dont go on hearsay...

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Fixing all of the major problems would require fundamentally rewriting portions of the game, which I seriously doubt they have done or will do.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

so fyron... wanna get if for me.... As I collect...

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Trust me, you don't want MOO3. Even free is too much for the game.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

20 bucks, with a $20 rebate? WITW?!?!?! Okay, maybe I'll bite. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, I'd still have to pay S&H, which probably would indeed be too much for the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

OK! Now Taz is happy he did NOT buy MOO3 at full price! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Which brings up the question...is it worth postage? Come on all you MOO3 owners (with patches) is the game worth the effort now? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

A review from Amazon's site:

****Transcript of MOO3 Experience****

3:05pm - *sees Moo3 on shelf in store* Ooh, I want to buy this game so much. MOO1 and 2 were all time classics and once again I'll be driving my Humans into conquest over the other space lackeys!

3:45pm *Loading screen* Ok, I see there's an instruction manual in here...hmm. Ooh, there's a little backstory deal. Hey this is actually kind of interesting...

4:00pm *still loading* Hmm...still loading. My but this is a good story. I hope the game plays good, I don't see much in the way of instructions in here. Usually that means "Tutorials" (smiles)

4:05pm Ok, done loading. Now let's see...huh? What the heck is this intro movie about? There's like 200 different things going on, and there's this guy with this thing on his chest, ick...what a weird spacey, yet undeniably psychadelic feel about it, mixed with wistful philosophical banter from the announcer.

4:07pm Ok...Main screen is up. Now let's see how this works...grrr, I hate popup window tutorials. *reads* man, this is some mundane reading. Ok, keep clicking...hmmm...I know I should be reading this but it's written in college textbook monotone.

4:10pm Hmm...it says here I have 2 Scouts and a Colony Ship in the queue...I think that's the queue. Actually it looks like there's 2 queues here. Huh?

4:12pm Oh these popup thingies are annoying *hits cancel*...there we go. Huh? There's still a million popups...No, I don't want to research Policy Making, I want to get Fusion Beams.

4:18pm Good grief...I don't care about you anymore Sitrep. *Sighs* I miss the Sean Connery guy who gave me those science reports. "One click only, Vasily"

4:25pm Hmm...I've explored all these stars, but....whoa! Ancient Battle Damage! Now that sounds cool...hmm. Wonder what that is. Well, I'll just access the Encyclopedia thingie...*searches* funny...there's nothing about it in here. Strange...sure does sound cool though. Now if I can just colonize the planet.

4:34pm *Sighs* I can't seem to colonize this fool planet...no right click menus, no order giving to ships. What the heck? Ah well, I'll just let my scouts roam around some more.

4:36pm Huh? An enemy ship over my home planet? Egads!...hmm...Battle...No, I don't want to Watch it, I want to Control it. *moments pass* ...what? ... Engage dangit!

4:38pm What the heck is going on here? This guy is still over my planet and I can't seem to attack him. Grrr...well, I guess he's ok there, doesn't seem to be doing anything anyways.

4:45pm Hmm...this is really kind of boring. All I'm doing is clicking the Turn button. This Sitrep thing is getting annoying, it keeps telling me I have colonies, but I haven't sent out any Colony ships. Hmm...I wonder. The annoying "tutorial" said something about the computer doing some stuff for me...

4:46pm Oh, I remember. The Planets button. I just click on that and.....?? Where the heck did all these colonies come from?? I never gave such orders...what?

4:50pm Good grief! I didn't know all these planets were mine! Why weren't they color coded like on MOO2 to let me know where my boundaries were? Oh God I have a headache

5:00pm Great, now I'm over some colony named GME-351A or something. What kind of civilization name is that? Oh well...it keeps asking me if I want to attack, but I only have 1 scout there. Oh ..., go ahead and attack, what's it matter at this point? Hmm...hey, this looks promising...a rotating 3D planet...and explosions! But where's my ships? What the he-- is with this menu? No I don't want to disband the freakin' task force!

5:05pm *Head in hands* Oh my God, how did this game get out the door? I haven't seen anything this buggy since the original Outpost way back when, and that had a cooler intro. *Sighs and checks receipt*...great. No returns, just exchange. Oh God what was I thinking?

5:10pm *MOO 2 Loading* Ah, now this is more like it! Ah, hiya Mr. Connery, why yes I'd like to research Fusion Beams, thank you very much!

EDITTED TO INCLUDE ABOVE REVIEW - at least the reviewer didn't ENTIRELY lose his sense of humor! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 28, 2003, 03:58: Message edited by: Taz-in-Space ]

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

MOO3 is utter crap. Only a few things about the game are worth mentioning, and even those are not that hot.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

lemme guess... graphics and sounds and graphics?

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Too bad SE IV is not available on amazon, we could have read then : "270 people recommended Space Empires IV gold instead of Master of Orion 3"...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Hmmm... funny, I've never seen that many 3rd-party sellers on Amazon... "28 used & new from $15.00"

"Comments: - Complete in original small box. Opened with light wear."
Does this mean that the previous owner only threw around the box for a few seconds in a fit of rage, or for several minutes?

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Never seen so much bad customer reviews on a product... I really wonder how some people can still buy it !

Specially like this one :
"
[...]
I recommend Space Empires IV Gold by Malfador Machinations instead of MOO-III.

Review by: Maximillian Ben Hanan"

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

People are stupid and will buy anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Now come on people, the demise of MOO3 just isn't funny, and we shouldn't laugh at the misfortune of the developppers.

*pause*

BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAA AAAA!!!!

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

you know a game is bad when game copy world does not have any patches, fixes, cracks, or anything for it. moo3 bombed. but if its free it might be worth getting. however having to buy the game then send in for rebate i am not sure its worth it.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Don't buy it. What you see will break your heart.

Please excuse me while I quote myself. Ahem...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

MOO3 came out? I hadn't noticed, I was too busy working on my "Highliner" mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Seriously, there is some good coming from this fiasco... SEIV is getting some good free publicity. Here's another testimonial from Amazon...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Yeah, the game is virtually unplayable in it's current state. I honestly tried to like it for what it was instead of for what I wanted it to be, but it just didn't work out. The game simply isn't fun to play (for me at least, some folks seem to enjoy it). Personally, I haven't been this disappointed in a game since the first Battlecruiser.

I'm planning on giving it another shot once the code patch comes out, but my hopes aren't high. I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I never rush out and buy a game as soon as it's released. I never, ever pre-order. There was only one exception : X-Com Apocalypse, I bought that one as soon as I saw it, but I was younger then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I will take your advice and avoid MoO3 like the plague.

But we should be asking ourselves, why is MoO3 such a poor game ? Not how, plenty has been said about that, but why ? Did the original developer sell the rights to another company ? Were any of the people who worked on MoO2 on this project ? Was there interference from the publisher ? In other words, what went wrong ? Owning the MoO line was supposed to be like owning a license to print money, how did they manage to make such a mess of it ?

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Also, has there been any talk of Moo4? Maybe they'll be rushing to get something onto the market that is more like what everyone hoped moo3 would be so they can put this fiasco into the past and bury it.

Kind of like Aliens resurrecttion being the film the Alien3 should have been, or highlander3 trying to salvage some credibility for the line by completely disowning the abysmal highlander2.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

But the artwork is cool right? Could someone who has it strip out the races and make shipsets/racial sets for them in SEIV? That way we will "save" the valuable bits, allowing them to live on in the SEIV realm!

I'd just like to think of it as salvaging the hard work of the artists http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Planets can easily be rendered into se4 sized planets. Not sure about facilities, or ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

True Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . It would be good if you could find the ship pic files, but I'm guessing its been coded to protect against that sort of "piracy" (not open source I'm guessing).

I was thinking of maybe screen shots of ships and facilities. Maybe get lower resolution, but atleast get something. I haven't played the game, so I don't know how big the ship pics are "in-game". I'm hoping they're bigger than in SEIV.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I am still amazed at the state of the gaming software industry today. Not only do we have people PAYING to beta games, but a company can get away with putting out software that absolutely does not work as designed and they get to walk away with the profits. Yes, you can talk about bugs in Microsoft and such, but almost every time, the functionality is there in my experience.

There are differences, obviously. With business software, there is usually a pilot period. There are evaluations before you can buy the game. We as consumers don't get that with gaming software. Still, there should be some recourse.

This stuff just chaps my hide.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I agree, sachmo.

I really think the primary downfall of MOO3 is the lack of any sort of useful documentation. Combine this with the bugs, and a player is constantly left wondering "Hm, this feature doesn't work like I assumed it would. I wonder if I just did something wrong, or if it's due to a bug that hasn't been reported yet?" As there is no documentation to explain what some features should do, there's really no way to tell. Unless of course, you test and re-test the effects of the features for hours on end until you get the desired results. And I don't feel like I should've had to pay for the "privelege" of doing that.

MOO3 is one of those games that the more effort you put into learning it, the more enjoyment you're likely to get out of it. Unfortunately, it's just too painfully tedious for some people like me to learn without proper documentation to at least help me along.

It bugs me that I paid full price for it, but if nothing else I'll be able to show it to my grandchildren as a little piece of gaming history. "This, kids, was one of the most highly anticipated, yet ill received PC games in history!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 29, 2003, 22:17: Message edited by: Voidhawk ]

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I agree MOO3 was a dissappointment, but I believe it can still be reasonable game to play. Players has made mods for the game, which make game encyclopedia more useful, AI more aggressive, etc. There is actually dozens of mods, which you can find going into MOO3 Boards.

However, there is 2 major flaws in the game. First is that it is 800x600 permanently and it looks horrible in the higher resolution displays (I have 21" monitor). Second and bigger flaw of the game is, that AI makes all the things for you and you can't actually control anything. You can't choose what to research (except using those sliders what were on MOO1), you don't see how your money is generated (except complicated mathematics). This game includes 3 different taxes. Diplomacy is badly crippled, lot worse than in MOO2 (Moo2 had decent diplomacy at least). Spies and spying is bad, bad, bad...

And making those developent plans are quite frustrating too. Well, I could go on, but this all had been said many times in MOO3 forums. I personally am willing to wait the patch to see if it can save the game.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Requiring tons of mods to make the game even be playable is a good indication that it is a terrible game and the developers should be banished from the game development market before they can do even more damage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or at least harshly penalized. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 30, 2003, 09:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

No one answered my question (I haven't found the answer elsewhere, either). What went wrong ? How could they have made such a mess out of a good game ? The way you guys talk, re-doing MoO2 with better graphics and a couple of new races would have been better than MoO3.

Infogrames used to have a good name, quality-wise (I love their Alone in the Dark series). I know nothing at all about Quicksilver.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I thought designing ships was still pretty good. But then you had to put them in battle in real time combat (yuk!) with very tiny graphics.
How could a company make such a horrible game? Repeated beatings with the stoopid stick!
Actually I think they meant well but didn't listen to anyone's input. NO REAL TIME COMBAT! How many times do turn based strategy gamers have to say that? We are still a force to be listened to. In the end they thought the MOO name was good enough to smooth over any problems with Real Time Combat and obscure economics. Still waiting for the "fun patch".

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I have to say that I belive quite strongly that real time combat is not inherently bad. I know that it is very dangerous territory for these types of games.

Developers have yet to find a formula for making consistently good RTC systems.

The one game I have in mind as a good RTC game was RoboSport ... You would write short scripts for a few seconds of combat at a time, such as "face north", "scan and fire for 2 seconds", "duck down", "run across the gap to location X,Y", "scan and fire for 2 seconds" "face towards gap" "switch to rocket launcher" "scan and fire for remaining time"

With all the orders in, the robots run and bLast and lay mines, and bust into buildings like commandoes... beautiful to watch, and I could trash the other humans I played against at 3 on 1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

I can answer your question. First of all, they did not have any leader in the developement group. They had artistic leader (IIRC), but no project leader. Any coder can imagine what is the result if there is no good leadership in a LARGE project. MOO3 is very large.

Secondly, they tried to achieve too much and made regrettable compromises in the way. They tried to make a game, where player would be like a real emperor. What does a real emperor do? He decides to start a war, but do not war himself. He decides that education is important but he do not build schools. You get the point.

Where did this lead to? Player makes policies, which AI uses to build up / manage planets, colonize and research. What is left to player? Designing new ship models (very crappy way, I would say), building spies one by one(you can't make them "repeat build"), diplomacy (choices are basically to offer tech trade which AI rarely accepts, increase current money and research trade and start a war), changing tax rates (when unrest goes too high, this is every turn nightmare when you first rise them and next turn lower them. Every planet separately) and most importantly: push the TURN BUTTON.

What about two most important strategy game factors: combat and science?

COMBAT: You get realtime 3D screen, where you see little dots inside pentagram. Controlling them is to click pentagram and point it to the enemyforce. That is attack. Forget the neat tactics you used in MOO2. They don't exist. Then you see little lights and little dots going around and sometimes disappearing (if out of sensor range). How far your weapons carry? You can't see any "sphere of range" or "sphere of sight" around your task force. Only way to find out is to attack. There is no any sign or knowldge how far enemy is in combat screen. Not a one. Did I mention furious clicking and scrolling? You can't see the combat area at one time. You don't have that little strategic map (like in MOO2) beside tactic map. Oh no. You scroll and click when trying to keep your forces alive and think "where the hell is my task force?"

SCIENCE: You have 6 areas of science (like in MOO1). Economy, energy, social science, physical science, biology and mathematics. All you can do is to set mentioned policies, where you emphatize research and change the percentual distribuition between the fields. What happens? You get new inventions every other turn and soon you lose your interest on those. For some bizzarre coincidence, all hand guns look same, all engines look same, all biological devices look same, all ship guns look same...

Oh, and when you have this new and fancy fleet which has mass drivers, guess if you are able to refit them to be Armor piercing mass driver? CORRECT!! You can't even give your ships a new paint after they are built!

LEADERS: You get one or two leaders early game. They die in 10 turns if you have not chosen to have supreme spying skills (spies at home defend you). Did I mention of the bug which gets your leader to get killed every turn and new one appearing the next turn? Oh, by the way, you can forget the leader experince, ship experience and YES! YES! NO SHIP LEADERS. HURRAH!

GALAXY SCREEN: You can zoom in and out. For some reason, starlanes and system names appear only when you have the maximum zoom. Actually, all the details disappear if you zoom out, expect the star colors. Try to find any specific planet in a huge galaxy. Next thing worse is to find a specific grain of sand in a football field looking through toilet paper roll.

Hmm... I think I stop here before I get sarcastic. Complete list of things you can find in MOO3 forums.

Karibu has spoken

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BOTF had combat similar to that. You issue orders for a "turn" and then the ships fight in real time-esque execution for a turn. The orders were not quite as complex, they were various possible attack patterns. But it worked rather well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If only all of BOTF was as good... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 30, 2003, 18:54: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Indeed. As the old joke goes, "'What is the definition of a camel?' Answer - a horse designed by committee."

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow! If I were Infogames management, I would change the name after this fiasco. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Er...that was tongue-in-cheek, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Infogrames actually DID change it...to Atari!

They pretty much would rather be associated with the new Enter the Matrix game than MOO3. lol

http://www.gamemarketwatch.com/news/item.asp?nid=2690

zen

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean they made Sim Galaxy instead of MoO3 ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

They made a SIM Galaxy that plays the game for you, and they forgot to give you a front row seat.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks! I was looking for this game awhile back but I couldn't recall the name. I agree, this was a fun game. However, I'd say it is better described as a hybrid of real time and turn based.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Now, keep in mind SEV is going to have a real time combat, AFAIK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Yes, and Aaron will make it properly designed so as to eliminate all the click festing things people associate with RTS games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif There is no way any beta tester will let him rest if he doesn't. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Just because Quiksilver can not get anything right does not mean that it is impossible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 31, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

Hey, what's wrong with real-time combat? It just has to be pausable. I liked it in Medieval: Total War.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

try taking a horse into a desert.

Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 

A horse in a specially designed truck that keeps the horse alive without any significant problems, and yes, a horse in a desert works just fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif