Explanation of AI State??
 

Can someone give me a hand in understanding what the different AI States do and mean?

AI State:
Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack,
Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense,
Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term), Not Connected

Looking through the files I see that they are used in the following files:

Default_AI_Planet_Types
Default_AI_Research
Default_AI_Construction_Facilities
Default_AI_Research
Default_AI_Construction_Vehicles

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

Most of the AI is hard coded. It will assess what is happening and go into a particular 'state' according to its decision criteria. The names of the possible states are what you have posted. It's not too difficult to figure out what they mean. Exploration and Infrastructure are used when no enemies are present. Prepare to attack and attack are used when an enemy is judged to be in the AI's claimed territory and it finds itself strong enough to attack. Secure holdings after Incursion I'm not sure about -- it might be after the AI attacks, it might be after the AI has been attacked. The defend options are easy enough. I've never seen Defend (Long Term) actually used by the AI, though. Not Connected is for when the AI realizes it's cut off from the rest of the map (no warp points).

Theoretically, you could use all those various state names to make the AI behave differently according to it's 'state' when selecting colony types, researching, building ships, etc. In practice the only place where this is useful is in ship/unit construction.

Think about it. If the AI were told to research weapons only when in one of the 'threatened' states -- presumably to speed 'infrastucture' research like resource extraction technologies -- it would be a sitting duck for the first enemy that came along after an extended pause in weapons research. Which would probably be the first contact with a major rival. It would be far behind an empire that researched weapons without pause and just be ripe for the picking of those infrastructure techs. And of course it doesn't make any sense at all to have it reversed, researching weapons only when not threatened.

The same goes for selecting colony types. The AI is already very bad at balancing its resources. It would be foolish to tell it to not build military installations or not build 'Intelligence' colonies when not at war. And you can't tell it to not develop resource planets when at war, because available resources can make all the difference in a war. There is no mechanism to re-assign colony types, either. It would be stuck, again, with lots of juicy undefended but developed stuff easily taken. You must tell it to develop its holdings in the same way at all times.

The only place where using different AI states is actually worthwhile is in *_AI_Construction_Vehicles.txt where you can tell it to build different types of ships or units when exploring, defending, or attacking. The 'scripting' is just too crude to be useful in the other files.

[ June 04, 2003, 01:50: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

Baron,

Thanks, you actually answered my question rather well...I am hoping to make a foray into making my own mod. NowI know how NOT to limit the AI any more than it is.

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

Does anyone know what specifically causes the AI to switch from exploration to infrastructure?

And how is incursion different from attack?

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

JLC posted a good explanation about AI states some time ago, but I can not find his post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
May be if he reads this, he will post it again.

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly why it switches states is not very clear.

Incursion seems to mean 'attacked by someone else' while Attack means 'attack someone else'. So, I think the 'secure holdings after incursion state' is repair of your empire after it's been attacked. A useful state. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But it might also be triggered after you've conquered a new system. The AI 'advances' by claiming a system and then attacking the 'foreign' presence there, remember.

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean JLS, right? Hopefully he will post here, but if not I will ask in the AIC thread.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So at some point your race switches from exploration to infrastructure without ever encountering another race? Does infrastructure ever occur after first contact?

Also, I see an "Incursion" state, but not a "secure holdings after incursion". If incursion is when someone else attacks, then the question becomes how is it different from defend (short term)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 05, 2003, 06:26: Message edited by: cybersol ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

Well, I've seen 'Secure Holdings After Attack' and 'Incursion' used together so much that I've run them together in my mind. I guess they are seperate states but it's hard to know which is which. One is probably the 'victim' state and one the 'aggressor' state. So it's probably smart to keep them together like they are currently used.

[ June 04, 2003, 21:57: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

Thanks for all your help Baron. The reason I keep wondering is that not many of the different AI authors seem to use the same groupings in construction_vehicles. It would seem that if the states where really well understood the groupings would be more consistent. For example,

Rollo: Exploration, Infrastructure, Defend (Short Term) are all together or Exploration is separate and just Infrastructure and Defend (Short Term) are together.

MB: Exploration and Infrastructure are each alone and everything that says defense is together.

Atraikius: Exploration is alone, Infrastructure is grouped with the Prepare and Secure states, and Defense (short term) is with Defense (long term) and Incursion.

Others, such as Mephisto have everything together except Exploration and Not Connected.

It seems that if everyone had an equal understanding, then the categories would be more consistent. Some would provide more detail and flesh out more different categories, but when grouping they would group the same way.

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

There was once a chat with Aaron about all this but unfortunately the thread has gone in the Last month or so. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Exploration is the state until the AI meets another race. Then it will nearly never return to it IIRC (it will return to it for example if you cut all warp points between the AI and all other races).
In the end it is very hard to predict to what state the AI will switch. Because of this I put all the build queues in only 3 categories.
One is “Not connected” and it is obvious that you need to build and research in quite a different way when you are locked in one system.
The “exploration” phase is important because it will be the first state the AI is in. Don’t overload this state with build orders as it can strip the AI off all resources due to maintenance and no building will be finished.
I put all the rest in one state because the AI has no real concept of attack and defense. So it is of no use if you build more defense units or attack units, the AI will need both. It was planned that the AI would build up for an attack but as it seems it never really worked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the invite, cybersol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This has been discussed on AI Campaigns thread.

> AIC Thread <

----

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The AI Incursion State ; is not a full Attack, but merely an attempted Incursion by the AI into its enemy territory to destroy ships, SATs and or Capture colonies.

The AI attack Phases.
First, the AI needs a nearby enemy system that is ripe for takeover and then the AI's plan is two fold, it will plan and maneuver for the attack. Then Attack (Only IF IT CAN)

1: AI Prepare to Attack state.
The AI will prepare a fleet or Fleets if (CAPTURE PLANET is the fleet order of the day) and get ready for an attack on that system.
Note: This is why you sometime see fleets just stationed outside its enemies target Planet. Or some obscure warp point.

2: AI Attack State.
This is when the AI analyzes whether the Attack is a valid attack or not.
If it is a valid attack still, then it is simple; the AI attacks an enemy system with the intentions to conquer it.

[ June 06, 2003, 06:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes;~ Cybersol. First Contact usually triggers the AI’s Infrastructure state if that contact is near its/there Claimed territory.

The AI Infrastructure state is where the AI builds up its planets and concentrate on defending its systems.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The answer to this, is MOD related, and I can only answer in terms of the way I set up AI Campaigns files.
Please post the question on the AIC thread; in the mean time, I will think the answer to your question thru http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 01:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">(1): If the warp points are cut for any reason, or the AI has no Planets left Colonize able or not, and there is no other Players to consider an aggressive posture with (irregardless of any and all AI anger or Political files).

Then the AI will go into the Not Connected State.

After it opens a warp and only after the scout records a Planet; then it will switch to the Infrastructure State . If after the planets are colonized and (1) becomes true again then the AI will revert back to a Not Connected State .

Note: This is why it important to set up your Colonizer Builds in BOTH the AI Infrastructure State and the Not Connected State to a doable entry for the AI in the Vehicle Build file.
For example if you have minimums Planets set to high in Infrastructure and Not Connected State. With a few or a many set in the at least, and your AI just switched from Not Connected to Infrastructure, and you already have a few of the wrong type Colony ships Orbiting the Home world, your AI may get STUCK.

Not Connected MUST have at least this:

Entry x Type ~~~~~~~~~~~:= Colonizer
Entry x Planet Per Item ~~~~:= 30 (20 is good for gas races)
Entry x Must Have At Least~~:= 0

This way when the AI switches too or back to Not Connected AI state, there is a good chance it will order the appropriate colonizer to be built.
~

Infrastructure Colonizer Types; 60 gas to 80 for Rock Race over 1 is fine. 2 if you want and think you can afford aggressive Colonization, for Must Have At Least entry.

~

The AI will only return to the Exploration AI State and that would be from the AI Defend Short Term State if after (five turns):
There is no longer an enemy in or enemy nearby its clamed territory and there is still systems nearby to explore.

The 5 turns for the Defend Short term; is there to help Prevent the AI from going into a Premature and expensive Solid Defense State.

If as a Human Player, you may think you can exploit this in Proportions or AIC, you cannot… If you hang around the AIs systems with out a Treaty, the AI will continue to build ships and Bases at a reduced PPI and advantages MHAL # until it sends you right back to your Home System, with that AI in close pursuit.

This is why in some games, the AI has a very large Ship Count, it is from the AI inter-reactions.

In addition, the More ships the AI builds the Higher is its score the more vulnerable you become.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is so true.

If you are really trying to follow up on the AI states, try to do this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Have all your AI State programming avenues set up in your Vehicle Construction File.

Then have the first AI state build one BSY or what ever.
The next 2 BSY
etc. But differant BSY amounts for each AI State.

By counting the BSY being added to the Construction queue, during your supervised AI test game; you will know precisely, what State the AI just switched to.

This, works for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a little debatable, Mephisto.

The AI goes into the Prepare Attack State ok and will amass the Ships you programmed for it to have with the (at least of) and the (the Per Planet count) in your AI vehicle Construction File. (Resource reserves Considered of coarse) .

However, agreed. The AI backs out of the Attack State sometimes way to cautiously, and this is caused most the time of some other event. (For example: That or another player entered its space, triggering Defend Short Term considerations.)

Either way, if the AI does not comply with its original Attack Plans it has just increased its Ship Count by the settings the AI designer considered the AI could afford. With all the benefits, that this implies. Diplomacy, and the newfound localized supremacy options this AI now has for an Incursion State change, until the time that you set in the Race_AI_Settings (((Turns to Wait until next attack := 6))) passes where this AI may start back into Prepare to Attack State, to try the process again and again, until it works or it is distracted by a further prioity...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Aaron was brilliant the way he set this up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 07:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just define special ship designs with low cost (Infrastructure, Attack, Prepare for Attack, etc.) and have the AI build one at the beginning of the entry for that queue. Then, I know right away what state it's in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course, removing them after testing is finished can get tedious.

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif True, Krsqk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The First state is Explore and it will of coarse build the BSY.

Basically, it depends on what mod you are Playing….

Proportions and AIC is the only AI that I have done for se4, and both Mods build a lot of BSY’s …

You may not be able to have 10 overall BSY in base se4 effectively.


I have BSY construction any way in all my AI States. So after changes, if any, are really not an issue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For example: With my Current Abbidon Race for Proportions. I would look for:

Explore = 4 Ship Yards.

Infrastructure: Will increase to 5 Ship Yards.

Prepare for Attack, Attack: Will increase to 7 Ship Yards.

Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion: Would only total 6 Ship yards.

Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term) : Would stay at 4 Ship Yards with the AIs emphasis on building Defense Ships.

Not Connected: Would show show by, what the AI is researching, then Building.

This method as you could see, can help you determine the AI is functioning the way you want.

LINK >> PvKs Proportions

-----------------------

For AIC, I just know the changed AI State by the total Ships, Bases even units that just increased in its score totals, at any point in the game. For each of the Races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I no longer need to go into the RACE.

For example in AIC:

A lot of new Ships and Bases (BASE YARDS) means that AI just went into the Attack State.

A lot of new ships, Units (infantry) and a few Bases (defense bases) means that AI just went into a Solid Defense State.

A lot of ships and no Base means the AI just went into Incursion State...

There are many other tell tales as well.

In other words if AI Race (A) Just increased new Ships and Bases.
Then AI RACE (B) Just increased new ships, Units and a few Bases.

Then they are dukeing it out somewhere in the Quadrant...

With AI Race (A) having the Initial advantage.

~~~

This can be tracked with view all scores (on).

[ June 06, 2003, 14:56: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You mean JLS, right? Hopefully he will post here, but if not I will ask in the AIC thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen: Exactly why it switches states is not very clear. Incursion seems to mean 'attacked by someone else' while Attack means 'attack someone else'. So, I think the 'secure holdings after incursion state' is repair of your empire after it's been attacked. A useful state. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But it might also be triggered after you've conquered a new system. The AI 'advances' by claiming a system and then attacking the 'foreign' presence there, remember.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So at some point your race switches from exploration to infrastructure without ever encountering another race? Does infrastructure ever occur after first contact?

Also, I see an "Incursion" state, but not a "secure holdings after incursion". If incursion is when someone else attacks, then the question becomes how is it different from defend (short term)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, how is the incursion state Different from defend (short term)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Explanation of AI State??
 

Incursion, AI State:
Not a full Attack by the AI Player, but merely an Incursion into enemy territory to destroy his ships, Sats and/or capture colonies.

Defend Short Term, AI State:
An attack or Incursion is underway by non-Treaty ships in that AI Players Territory.
This would be the first stages of the AI Players defense, and will Last about 5 turns.

[ June 11, 2003, 17:26: Message edited by: JLS ]