Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

The major AI problem still unresolved in AIC, IMHO is this :

All right, as a preambula, here is something well known to all AI moders:
One of the worst AI' deficiencies is the inability to scrap a planet
facility to give a way for the one more suited to the global Empire status.
As an example, take a look at this _truly_ horroble example -
AI (rock oxygen) colonizes a rock hydrogen (just an example) planet early on.
Let's assume the planet fits under the "mineral colony" criteria. Fine.
AI builds two mineral miners and leave this planet in peace.
~100-1000 turns later AI discovers atmosphric converter. Alas, our planet
has all slots filled and it will never be converted to oxygen atmosphere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

How to make AI be more "intelligent" ??? As it was proposed before, let's give
AI a special facility. It must have the "convert atmospher" value to
be a VERY long time, practicaly unrealistic, say 1k turns. It' major purpose is to secure
the planet facility slot and be upgradable top the "real" atmospheric convertes.
Now, since every AI_construction facility should have "convert atmosphere"
as a first entry, AI should build this temporaly facility first. Later on, AI will upgade
this building to a proper converter and scrap it once conVersion completed !!!

The one drawback is of course that AI builds temporaly facility whose whole purpose
is to be scraped later on. But that' no problem. Let it produce
some minerals/something_else for awhile

Bingo, AI will convert atmosphere of every single colony !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

none/gas_giant is a problem of course.

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

I think, all that play AIC, thru, will say the AI is tough enough NOW and the AI never has a problem with resources ; ~Oleg

To give the AI the ability to convert atmosphere and build more facilities, this will burry the unlucky Human Player in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

The advantage here may also go to the AI with the best Construction Rate.

The HUGE Advantage also goes to Rock AI; due to the numbers of Planets Available.

As it is now, in AIC for the AI, , only the Engineering Races Research and will Build this devise. Naturally and actually very efficiently as well.
With this change, we will be denying some very peaceful AIs a means to win peacefully.
Please refer to the AIC Praetorian and the Toltayan races.

The terminal draw back. Is when and if the Human Players pierces an AI and captures ALL Planets at 100%…
In multiplayer games, this will decide the game for some Human Players that have never fired a shot in anger http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif and would like this to be reserved for a only peaceful means for victory. (Score Related victory) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

For finite Play, I have the AI purposely programmed to Last about 750 turns before he starts to feel the sting of depleted resources. This FINITE turn limit for the AI in AIC is fully programmable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I also would like to reiterate, the AI Player in AI Campaign rarely if ever has problems with resources in a 2000 turn Non-Finte Game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

How, many games do you play past 2000 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Do you think my reply is to bold?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 08, 2003, 13:57: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg, how can you say Production is a problem in AIC? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Some AIC players with you being one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
has asked me to put some rains on the AI in AIC for no bonus game, that the AI it was to tough…. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

That is what I was working on in my spare time all Last month, to tame the AI abit in AI Campaign.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Continued in lower post.

[ June 06, 2003, 21:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

No, No, and No to all arguments' !

I just want to make AI more antrophorfic (sp.?).
namely to behave like human and convert atmosphere if possible. I seriosly do not think it will make AI much more stronger: Before atm. converion, the proposed facility is more like a burden to AI !!! AI spends resources for no return untill it resarch planetary utilization and upgrade the facility. No, it is possible, IMHO of course, to keep AI in check but still give it more flexibility than now !

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When you say no, to all arguments, are you saying my reasons are invalid?

--------------------
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please elaborate with this a little more.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure, almost anything can be done, to help or hinder the AI in AIC. But if Production is fine, and the AI is already so strong, I needed to back it down in the Last patch, then why does anything like this, have to be done?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
How will giving the AI a converter that will convert a planet to allow that AI to build up to 24 facilities, behave more like a Human Player?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 22:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

"antrophorfic"

Anthromorphic.

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

I don't think, you want to have the AI in AIC any tougher in AIC - Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What I also like about AIC is the way the AI interacts with Human players, diplomaticly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

"Anthromorphic"

Anthropomorphic.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

Oleg,
I will play test the Facility again this month. It is a good idea.

Please rethink my first reply.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Let us enjoy this debate, your TOPIC TITLE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Please reply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 23:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

You and your po's Krysk. Down with po! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

Yes, please try such facility !

It's major goal is not to convert atmosphere (it should have the convertion time close to the second comming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) but reserve the facility slot till AI research the real converters. It will make AI much stronger in the long run, but should handicap AI in the begining - it will "waste" 1 facility per domed planet instead of using it for mineral expedition for example.

I suggest to name this facility "The geological survey expedition (or outpost)". Description should say something about "the research expedition aimed on collecting data about the planet geology and atmosphere. Its goal is to collect the necessary data for future planetary transformation" or something. As a picture, Mars rover or Beagle 2 would be perfect ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif May be it should generate some research points - half of the research expedition for example.

[ June 07, 2003, 06:31: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It can be set up to reserve a slot the same way AIC does it now for the AI with Industrial Factories, Computer Banks and Intel Agencies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A new and different Pic would be nice, or may be something from SJ’s; Image mod?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

Tomorrow, NASA launch the Mars Geological Survey Expedition...

Certainly, when we'll build the first Mars colony, its function sn't be to mine 10K of pottasium to be send back home or even build the CIA outpost. It will be exactly to help us terraforn Mars.

Re: Att: JLS - returning to theold debate:
 

You have a point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But I bet the CIA will get thier hand in it some where, anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ June 08, 2003, 13:58: Message edited by: JLS ]