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Other X\'s
I would hope that most of you know what 4 X means:
eXpand eXplore eXterminate eXploit But are there more? When it comes to SEIV I would have to say yes. IMHO I feel that SEIV is the first 10 X game out. You see, Space Empires IV is also: eXpansive - Long term game play eXtreme - Hours and hours of "only one more click" eXtended - Mods, PBW, and ship sets eXciting - Self-explanatory eXperienced - The game offers the most play for both armature and experienced player. eXtraordinary - Nearly three years after its release, it is still going strong. ) In fact it blew away MOO3, which was to be the biggest game of the year.) Now I am sure there are more X's that can be added to this game, but why bother, it is already the most extremely extraordinary and expansive 4 x game out for those with experience who want extended and exciting game play from a 4 X game. |
Re: Other X\'s
Maybe it should be marketted as the first of the "moreX" genre, although didn't Moo3 claim to be a "5X" game? I think the 5th X stood for "eXcruciating" in that case http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Re: Other X\'s
Those 4 are the ones which are meant when talking about 4X games (ie. They are widely known by everyone familiar with strategy games). MOO3 was advertised to be first 5X game when adding eXperience in the list. Though I don't yet know what it actually means in MOO3 expect you need to have huge experience of the game to play it properly.
You can design a game with X's more than 4, but in general there are no meaning for those X's yet. I agree that eXtended and eXperienced fit well into SEIV. |
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Moo3 was a dismall dismall failure of a game. I would fire the design team and hire in people who understand the genra and task them with making Moo4 a truly epic and expansive 4X or more game.
Right now Space Empires IV, Stars, Galatic Civilations, and BOTF appear to be the best game I have seen for 4X in recent years. (Moo2 as well) |
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MOO3 was a failure, I admit. I have to grant them my appreciation of the ambition, though they made too many compromises in it. It truly is quite different of any other strategy game ever. The biggest ambition is their biggest failure. They tried to let AI governors handle the planetary level, though it does not do it well enough. Had it been made right, MOO3 would have achieved very different opinions from the players.
However, I wait until the patch is released (not beta) and then I will try it and see does it work any better. |
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The one thing I really did like was the Galaxy map. That was truly one cool thing. The rest of the game was just pathetic in respect to what should have been a simple to learn, in depth game with long term game appeal. I hold no hope for the up coming patch. None what so ever. |
Re: Other X\'s
Would you consider EFS a 4X game ? How about SMAC ?
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EFS = Emperor of the Fading Suns. Multi-planet ground combat with a minor space element, set in a 'Dune-like' universe. Great game, moddable too.
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Re: Other X\'s
Don't forget
eXwife eXlife There is another game recently released that is not aa deep but qualifies to be listed and that is Empire Deluxe Internet Edition. Here is my rating: http://www.windingstream.com/ed/empiredeluxe.htm I was playing "one more turn" in its predecessor when I burned my then fiancé’s and now eXwife's pea soup. Despite it’s lack of complexity it still has the addiXtive draw to it. This is especially true since PBW is very easy and you can save any time you want to. |
Re: Other X\'s
Actually, it is:
eXplore eXpand eXploit eXterminate The order actually matters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
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EFS is a superbly designed game and could be the best if it weren't for all the bugs. The game is almost unplayable in single player unless you have lots of houserules to follow. Even then the AI is totally crappy. MP is where EFS shines and even then many houserules are needed not to use blatant bugs.
My two wetest dreams when it comes to followup computergames is EFS 2 and Master of Magic 2. |
Re: Other X\'s
Ooooo, Master of Magic. How could I forget about MoM ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I agree, EFS was good but it could have been better. My biggest complaint were the slow turns in the late game, but maybe those wouldn't be a problem on today's computers. Hmmm, have to re-install it sometime. |
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Hell I didn't even know about SE III until August of 2000 when a friend mentioned it at the former OPN forums. Rebellion and IG might also be considered 4 X games as well. |
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[ June 10, 2003, 11:59: Message edited by: Atrocities ] |
Re: Other X\'s
I still think
eXpand eXplore ... is the correct order http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
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Re: Other X\'s
Yeah... Roanon, you have it backwards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
[ June 11, 2003, 00:38: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
Re: Other X\'s
Expand first, care to explore what you have secured into your empire later http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Thats the reason why eXperienced players start with build colony ships and not explorer-types... |
Re: Other X\'s
Roanon, that's a valid approach, but, in that case, you're still using your colony ships to EXPLORE first. Face it: you can't expand to somewhere without finding it first.
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[ June 11, 2003, 04:26: Message edited by: Ragnarok ] |
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And yes. Imperium Galactica 1 and 2 are bona-find 4x games IMHO. What do you people think of Reach for the Stars? (Both Versions) |
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Re: Other X\'s
Terran C,
The first Reach for the Stars I never played enough to comment on. I discovered Space 4x games less than a year ago, and, altho I downloaded it from the underdogs site, it was just too dated to play a whole game. As for the new[er] Version, I'm one of what appears to be the VERY few who think it's not bad. I got it before I got SEIV, and I played it a lot then. Even now I'll occasionally play it as a break. I don't think people gave it a chance. The interface took a lot of heat for being different, but, once you get used to it [and I'm not talking about an endless, MOO3 kind of learning curve which, even after you achieve it, still makes the game a lot of work to play], it was an extremely efficient example of how to make gameplay easy. I hate cumbersome interfaces, but I thought RoFS's was very well done. Another big gripe had to do with the designers' decision not to allow the player to view enemy fleets [or anyone else's, including your own--altho you could always get an idea of how far along yours were] while they were in hyperspace travel between solar systems. Again, this did not bother me, as, if you accept the hyperspace concept for the sake of the game, it makes perfect sense that ships in hyperspace would not be detectable. Sure, it was a pain when the enemy appeared out of nowhere in one of your systems, but you could do the same to him [given SSG's reputation regarding AI, I'm confident that this one did not cheat, at least not in regards to special knowledge of your forces which you could not obtain regarding its], so I guess, "c'est la guerre." The only time this really annoyed me was when, if you were lucky enough to actually beat the AI to a pulp and take all his planets, his remaining ships could cruise around indefinitely, denying you victory as you tried to track them down while they travelled invisibly thru hyperspace, popping out here and there temporarily, only to disappear again. SSG eventually gave in to demands to make an optional, researchable tech giving the ability to track the enemy while he's in hyperspace, but by then the vast majority of gamers had written RoFS off as a failure. Also, you can only play solo, unless you play live on the internet--don't remember if you can do it on your own, or if you have to use a game server--so that was a big detraction for people who prefer multiplayer but don't have the time for long sessions on the net. I prefer PBEM myself, and never tried the multiplayer option. I suppose that, like most games, it's better vs a human player, but SSG makes great AI, and this one is more than a challenge for me. Ship design is part of the game, with research providing increasingly effective components--altho I found myself occasionally choosing older ones over new stuff for various reasons. A lot of races are included, and you can make your own, with its own tech tree, etc., but you have to use the graphics already in the game, mixing and matching if you want, because they aren't available to be edited outside the program--at least not as far as I can determine. You also can design new scenarios and campaigns. Combat is tactical, with a sort of rock/paper/scissors choice of formation and engagment range. It's fairly abstract, more so than SEIV, but the graphics, if that matters to you, are a bit flashier. So, if the gripes people had don't seem like deal breakers to you, you might want to pick it up. I got it Online from Chips and Bits Last fall, so there might be copies available. You might even be able to pick it up used on ebay or somewhere. |
Re: Other X\'s
Hrothgar you might yet make some sales for RFTS. I recall the game way back in Sept 2000, but never could find it on store shelves. I recall other games that used the Hyperspace system, Rebellion being one, and found it to only add to the flavor of the game. I still load up Rebellion once in a while and give the Empire hell.
Funny how older game seem to be more popular now than they were when they were released. I had to copies of Rebellion, and just sold one on ebay for $60.00. (Never opened and it came with the game guide.) Say do any of you remember the Imperium Galatica III demo? It was a fleet combat simulator I think released something like two years ago. I was wondering if the game is ever going to be released. Andt that also gos for Supernova Genesis. |
Re: Other X\'s
Just a test.
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