OT: Why Oh Why
 

Why oh God why does it always have to happen to me? Back in 2000 I bought a nice new Zip drive. Never used it for two years, it was a bonus with the Wind2k operating system I bought from Office Max. Well Last year I hook it up and start using it. Today, for no reason other than to piss me off, it dies.

My CDRW will not work, my zip drive just died, and my Floopy says all of my disks are not useable. Do you think my system is trying to tell me something? I can't back crap up now. The best I can hope for is to spend the night downloading the Samsong drivers for my CDRW and hope to hell they don't crash my system. You know win2k is the most tempromental OS ever programed, and it likes to let me know this from time to time.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

What about compressing and uploading your stuff while you reinstall?

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

"Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it."

-Linus Torvalds, after a hard drive crash.

[ July 08, 2003, 19:28: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is not true. 2000 is the best MS OS to date.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't say I disagree with this, so instead I will asert that Windows ME is the worst, unstablest, most player hatingest OS that MS has produced in the Last decade.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

The Star Trek Mod stuff isn't in any danger, right? We can't go through this two times in a row... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't say I disagree with this, so instead I will asert that Windows ME is the worst, unstablest, most player hatingest OS that MS has produced in the Last decade.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll jump in on the "trash ME bandwagon". And agree with Fyron's comment.

As to the other stuff, no, real men spend $50 on another spindle and just back up from drive to drive... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't say I disagree with this, so instead I will asert that Windows ME is the worst, unstablest, most player hatingest OS that MS has produced in the Last decade.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which is why I immediately went out and bought XP when it became available. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which is why I stil have Windows 98!! Woot the best OS in my opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

The most utility with the least bloat.

If it weren't for obscure drivers, I'd be running 98 right now.
Instead, I'll be stuck using ME until I can stop procrastinating and hunt them all down.

Its got this wierd way, where it acts up and crashes and stuff right until I'm about to get mad and uninstall it... then it starts working nicely until apathy kicks in, and it can start causing trouble again.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

yea i agree junkie, but you know what...it has not caused me any major problems, just a few drivers needed but as for OS...it is still runnin strong

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

My WinOS disapproval list:

(most disapproved)
1. Win 3.x or less
2. Win NT 3.x or less
3. Win 2K Server
4. Win XP Home
5. Win Me
6. Win XP Pro
7. Win NT 4
8. Win 95 (release Version)
9. Win 98 (release Version)
10. Win 2000 Pro
11. Win 95 OSR 2.5
12. Win 95 OSR 2.0
13. Win 98 SE
(least disapproved)

PvK

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

I use Win98 at home and 95 at work. When people suggest a switch I always remind them that "A donkey that carries you is better than a horse that throws you".

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Strange, I run 98se, 98me, and 2000pro on a network domain served by 2000server with no problems what so ever.

I also have a freeBSD file server, now it has real issues. The hours I have spend debugging it far outpace the pain of paying for another 2K license. If I had known at the beginning, I would have just paid my money and been up in running in less than an hour.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I like Win98 and keep it on my home computer. The only problem is with using Zip disks : At work, we have the Win2000. It is NT based and uses diferent FAT system. Sometimes my home computer can not read files that were written by win2k comp. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

Today, for no reason other than to piss me off, it dies.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I can't help but laugh since I feel that way when my comp does the same thing to me...

You know win2k is the most tempromental OS ever programed, and it likes to let me know this from time to time.

Sounds like my ex-wife.

I will say one thing, I really like XP, also if you have an old HD put that in there and back things up, but you probably thought about that, GL

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I like Win98 and keep it on my home computer. The only problem is with using Zip disks : At work, we have the Win2000. It is NT based and uses diferent FAT system. Sometimes my home computer can not read files that were written by win2k comp. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is prolly writing the files with NTFS not fat. All Versions of 98 can read and write to fat16 and fat32.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I formated Zip disc home, it has fat32. Win2k can read and write it, but apparently mess up with clusters or something.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

oleg thank you. You just got a manager off my *ss.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Strange, I run 98se, 98me, and 2000pro on a network domain served by 2000server with no problems what so ever.
...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just meant my personal approval. I like Win 98SE best for my own needs (gaming with minimal OS overhead, and minimal installation of annoying OS-polluting apps). Win 2K Pro is a good choice if you have to install annoying OS-polluting apps, because it handles out-of-control registry-polluting system-hogging/crashing apps better, but it wastes more of your computer than Win 98SE does with unneeded services and junk, especially if you don't tweak the settings to get rid of unwanted OS default "features". 98Me has more annoying stuff and bloat than Win98SE, and I've seen the most screwed-up systems of non-guru friends on Win Me. Seems like MS added new junk for Me and then abandoned it to work on XP, so 98SE has less annoying junk and is the most refined of the 9x releases, although 95 OSR 2.0 is the most refined 9x that doesn't have the $*&^$#@ "your OS _is_ Internet Explorer nonsense).

Win 2K Server consumes massive amounts of RAM and CPU just for itself, in my experience, and is full of features I would never want unless I had a contract which forced me to use its specific products. For a network server/router, give me a simple reliable no-BS Linux box.

PvK

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure what you mean there...
I was saying ME does those crazy things, and once I get the drivers I need, I'll be upgrading to 98.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Strange, I run 98se, 98me, and 2000pro on a network domain served by 2000server with no problems what so ever.
...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just meant my personal approval. I like Win 98SE best for my own needs (gaming with minimal OS overhead, and minimal installation of annoying OS-polluting apps). Win 2K Pro is a good choice if you have to install annoying OS-polluting apps, because it handles out-of-control registry-polluting system-hogging/crashing apps better, but it wastes more of your computer than Win 98SE does with unneeded services and junk, especially if you don't tweak the settings to get rid of unwanted OS default "features". 98Me has more annoying stuff and bloat than Win98SE, and I've seen the most screwed-up systems of non-guru friends on Win Me. Seems like MS added new junk for Me and then abandoned it to work on XP, so 98SE has less annoying junk and is the most refined of the 9x releases, although 95 OSR 2.0 is the most refined 9x that doesn't have the $*&^$#@ "your OS _is_ Internet Explorer nonsense).

Win 2K Server consumes massive amounts of RAM and CPU just for itself, in my experience, and is full of features I would never want unless I had a contract which forced me to use its specific products. For a network server/router, give me a simple reliable no-BS Linux box.

PvK</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL, you know that you don't have to load services and apps that you don't need? And with one regestry setting, you can controll what apps load during startup.

Linux does some things well, but I wouldn't want to manage several thousand Users with it.

The reason that the server Versions use more ram is related to the speed of ram access vs. the speed of HD access.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

backup to another harddrive. if you ever have the cash to spare, that's the way to go. and then, once and a while you can backup your stuff from the backup drive to a cd

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe, nice statement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What, you would rather do that with a win machine? Linux has one big advantage over windows and it's that it enables you to use older hardware for usefull things. So an old pentium machine can still run as firewall, fileserver and webserver. Try the same with windows and you'll fail horribly. That's what i like about linux, all my old computers now still do something in my LAN.
Another example: i have a Primax scanner. Worked great in Win98. Then i switched to XP Pro and it didn't work anymore since there where no drivers available. I then found a program that worked with my scanner in linux so now i can switch to whatever distro, my scanner still works.
I'm not saying win is bad but they always try to force you to buy new stuff and i don't like that. Hell they don't even support their own stuff: my sidewinder II joystick isn't officialy supported on XP Pro.
Anyways, for servers, linux is the way to go. Then can handle a bigger load than windows on machines less powerful

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

Before you give up test that equipment on a different system.

I have noticed some incompatibility of 3.5" diskettes between our new Compaq systems running Win2k and other systems with win 95 or 98.

Can it be the OS? I was blaming the floppy drives.

[ July 10, 2003, 12:54: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What, you would rather do that with a win machine? Linux has one big advantage over windows and it's that it enables you to use older hardware for usefull things. So an old pentium machine can still run as firewall, fileserver and webserver. Try the same with windows and you'll fail horribly. That's what i like about linux, all my old computers now still do something in my LAN.
Another example: i have a Primax scanner. Worked great in Win98. Then i switched to XP Pro and it didn't work anymore since there where no drivers available. I then found a program that worked with my scanner in linux so now i can switch to whatever distro, my scanner still works.
I'm not saying win is bad but they always try to force you to buy new stuff and i don't like that. Hell they don't even support their own stuff: my sidewinder II joystick isn't officialy supported on XP Pro.
Anyways, for servers, linux is the way to go. Then can handle a bigger load than windows on machines less powerful</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From an enterprise point of view, it will be replaced before it gets that out of date. On the
network that I support, we have clients that run 95 and 98 of all flavors, and we have 2K and XP. We also have thin clients that run CE. This all runs on a NT domain with 2K member servers and a 2K based Citrix farm. We have 22 field offices on frame relay and prolly that many more single unit offices on dial up. The equipment in the Data center will run 2K or 03K with no problem. The workstations run what they were purchased with. We also run an AS300 with UNIX. Firewall, switches and routers are all Cisco. My TC’s have no ram and no HD’s. Almost half of the workstations are 400 cel’s with 32megs of ram. They all run windows with nothing more than the occasional hardware death and the usual PITA group
problems. I can drive any one of the PC’s right from my desk, and if the TC’c have a software
issue, a re-flash is few key strokes away. On most days, the net techs are just sitting on their
butts. If it wasn’t for blind Users and the PITA’s, we could support it all with one tech. Why would we want to go with Xnix? What will it give us? And don’t try that cost per unit stuff on me. I can buy a lot of windows for what a tech costs per year. Not to mention what the PITA
group would grow to. I think Xnix has its place, and it will help improve the standard of the
industry, but I think I’ll keep paying my 17 bucks a unit for XP pro.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

In your case it might not that interesting to change since you don't seem to have older equipment and you get your windows cheap. But here (Belgium) a license costs a lot of money as does all the other software. So why would i want to spend so much money on an OS, an office suite and some tools (winzip, parition tool and so on) when you can get that all for free?

I rather use that money for something else. Linux isn't harder than windows to maintain. It might take you longer in the beginning if you don't know the os so basically you go through the same learning curve as when you switched from dos to win.

But you are right when you say they both have their uses.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

The main issue we would have is with the server based network. When a change occurs we benefit from work done by the venders. We also benefit from a wait and see attitude where we let others work out the bugs. While this sort of debugging occurs in the Nix world, it is not as well organized as it is in the windows world. Also, the Nix world is not really a server based model. Nix tends to rely on apps on the workstation. Which is not so bad until update time rolls around, then there is a massive amount of hands on. With our system an update to say
Office XP would require software to be installed on the farm only. The user would have it at
log on with no added strain on the bandwidth. There is also the issue of interconnected software. We have an app that holds a db that is what we are there for. We have 2mil invested
in it and 1/2 a mil worth of support contracted for each of the next three years. It generates
email by interfacing with our exchange server. And authenticates by using our NT domain
controllers. Were we to change to open source on either of these, it would be COD all the way. If it would be done at all. At this time they support Windows w/Java and there is a Version that can be run on Sun systems.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

Java runs fine on linux too. And about the server farm: are you saying that linux isn't that easy to setup thinclients? I thought that was the hole purpose of unix/linux. You have a server and a couple of terminals are connected to that server so people can work on it. I've seen a lot of info on this. There is even software that allows to cluster a number of servers so this would even make it easier.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The farm is 7 Citrix servers. And Citrix is designed to run on MS and serve up MS apps.

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

My preference list is based on my own needs and experience setting up small LAN's for personal or small office use mainly for game playing and development.

If someone already has experience with an OS and doesn't hate it, then using what they know how to make do what they want will of course be an appealing choice. Personally, I have no reason to want to learn what all I would have to do to get Win 2K Server to not run all sorts of crap I don't want. Even if I believe the incredible claim that there is "one" registry setting which will remove all unwanted crap features from Win 2K Server (which reg key is this?!?! I'm thinking "hmmm... HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG\System\CurrentControlSet\Contr ol\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0666\DontDoBloatCrap), it seems like it'd just be a more expensive Version of Win 2K Pro, for my purposes, and even Win 2K Pro with all patches still has issues with some games and nVidia graphics cards, while bare bones Win 98SE has no such issues and seems to boot and run much faster as long as you don't let lots of annoying apps stuff the registry full of crud.

PvK

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I heard about Citrix but i don't know it. I'll have to check that. So you basically install apps on the citrix servers and then people can connect via a terminal or stripped pc to one of those citrix servers to work?

Re: OT: Why Oh Why
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I heard about Citrix but i don't know it. I'll have to check that. So you basically install apps on the citrix servers and then people can connect via a terminal or stripped pc to one of those citrix servers to work?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep, they send key strokes and get display changes back. Server does the work. Low network load and low client load. The down side is that it likes big iron for servers. We have 5 quads and a pair of dual processor Xeon servers in the farm. They need lot of ram too, each user gets his own block of ram at logon.