A thought on Neutral Races
 

Ok while I am currently working on my ship set for my Wendigo Kingdom, I had a thought that I know I will get the answer on.
1. Is it easy to create a neutral race?
2. Other than the shipsets and race description. what are the steps into making a decent AI for a neutral race.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

I think the Neutral races are set up to use generic AI files. Giving them specific customized files (except General) is kind of pointless, as they do not make empires, just a single system, and so have very little direct effect on a game. I think they will use them, but all that hard work will have such a minor impact on the game that it is IMO not really worth it.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

Basically from what i gather they dont really leave there star systems, right? Other than that what real impact do they have on the game?

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

neutral races:
* use anything in their folder; other than that, they use the generic files.
* never leave their system
* are commonly viewed as a minor nuisanse/free system
* can possibly be modified to be a real divider
* can be modded

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any mod that puts emphasis on the defense can do this with them. I don't know what Proportions does with them, but I know that Neutrals can do this in my Highliner Mod. At the current settings, Neutrals can hold their own against player and AI Empires re: tech and unit creation well past the mid-point of the game.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

What if you made a neutral only race tree. One that allows their miners to produce far more minirals then regular players do. Thus allowing them to have more resources to build ships and bases in their home system. The end result would be a large neutral in a single system that would be tough to break.
Perhaps also mod in stronger weapons and so forth.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

1 very powerful Neuatral
That could work into the SE Olympics for a short game.
How many turns to destroy the a strong neutral
Same map and start for all games
This could be with 1 to 3 starting players.
Can anyone not playing in the SE Olympics make this neutral?
Possibly a 7 day max time allowed

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I always thought that neutrals should have their own racial techs. That way there would be some incentive to keeping them alive and allied with your empire. But it was pointed out that when randomly generated, neutral races never take racial traits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I always thought that neutrals should have their own racial techs. That way there would be some incentive to keeping them alive and allied with your empire. But it was pointed out that when randomly generated, neutral races never take racial traits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can mod that in the general.txt file of the neutral race. If you include there an advanced racial trait it will be used.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is very exciting to hear. I may actually do this. Perhaps it's already been done in a mod. Hear's the plan:

Bobroba States: no clue. Ideas?

Nultoh Group: ok they have advanced sight, so give them a level 5 cloaking sensor. If they have a partnership alliance - you get to see minefields laid in their sector, maybe even get them to trade a ship or sat that has the sensor on it.

Kithra Consortium: I dunno, they're warlike some sort of advanced troop. Maybe you can convince them to sell them to you or you can steal them if you conquer them.

Cluk-Ruk Republic: So they're aquatic. I don't know where to go here. Simpler life support component.

Texrak Hegemony: All right, tough quadrapeds. Give them a shock troop. A real tough troop.

Zynarra Holdings: Ice beam weapons. Ok, that's just crazy.

The basic idea in each case is the same, a racial tech trait that you can benefit from, if you keep them alive.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

Arcon,
Just followed the link in your sig.
ROTFLMAO
Thanks

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

Hmmm... making your own neutrals... this might work for a Guardian of Orion type scenario... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

edit: or a tamer Version of Space Monsters!

[ July 10, 2003, 22:18: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

Neutral races can be modded so they are invulnerable in the early game. I think it is possible to give them a tree where thy will build large weapons platforms with heavy weapons, large ships, and maybe drones. You can also make it so they are unlikely to make an alliance or participate in trades.
This would move them from minor nuisance to significant road block.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

Another thought came to mind, what is the maxiumu amount of neutrals can there be? Can the number be adjusted?

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The limit is hardcoded at 5 per game.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The limit is hardcoded at 5 per game.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a limit that must be fixed in the next patch. I would love a game with 19 neutrals.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The limit is hardcoded at 5 per game.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a limit that must be fixed in the next patch. I would love a game with 19 neutrals.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, I agree that this should be fixed in the next patch but I don't see how a game with 19 neutrals would be fun. Unless of course you modded them to be uber strong and could barely break their defenses. But other then that you would have full run of the galaxy and be able to build up with no resistance. Or unless you only had a 20 system map with 1 empire in each. Hmmmm, the possibilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This is all in my opinion of course. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun period. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

I think it would a great challenge for a modder to try to make a viable neutral- One that is more than just fodder for the larger empires.

If anyone's interested, I havbe a spare race pic that would make a great neutral...

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

I made a neutral racial trait. The main points I included are: athmosphere converter and universal colony module to let the neutral empire colonize all planets in their system as early as possible and use them as efficiently as possible. Then facilities that improve happiness and combat success. The research and construction file go early for mines and satellites.

Just to give you an example:
Name := System Defense Complex
Description := Large comples that improves the defense of the entire system.
Facility Group := Ship Support
Facility Family := 96
Roman Numeral := 0
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 50
Cost Minerals := 10000
Cost Organics := 10000
Cost Radioactives := 10000
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Neutral
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 7
Ability 1 Type := Fleet Training - System
Ability 1 Descr := Fleets in this system will improve by 3% each turn up to 30% (only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 3
Ability 1 Val 2 := 30
Ability 2 Type := Ship Training - System
Ability 2 Descr := Ships in this system will improve by 3% each turn up to 30% (only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 2 Val 1 := 3
Ability 2 Val 2 := 30
Ability 3 Type := Combat Modifier - System
Ability 3 Descr := Gives a 30% combat bonus to all ships and units in this system (only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 3 Val 1 := 30
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Damage Modifier - System
Ability 4 Descr := Gives a 15% damage bonus to all of our weapons used in this system (only 1 facility per system effective).
Ability 4 Val 1 := 15
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Stop Nebulae Creator
Ability 5 Descr := Stops all nebulae creating devices within the system.
Ability 5 Val 1 := 0
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Stop Black Hole Creator
Ability 6 Descr := Stops all black hole generating devices within the system.
Ability 6 Val 1 := 0
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Stop Star Destroyer
Ability 7 Descr := Stops all star destroying devices within the system.
Ability 7 Val 1 := 0
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0

The nice thing about giving the neutral empires special racial technology is that you can't steal it from them, even if you eventually conquer them.

Re: A thought on Neutral Races
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is it Willie Wonka?