Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

I have been playing around with some custom units, but I have been having great difficulty coming up with a good way to assign resource and gold cost to them. How do you guys decide on these values ?

As an example, take the niefel jarl. The most expensive unit in the game, with excellent combat ability combined with quite powerful magic and a potent special ability (cold aura).

What proportions of the 500 gold would these values be weighted at ? How much should they cost if I, for example, removed their magic skill entirely. How about the cold aura ? Adding regen to it - worth more if it's combined with the cold aura or same amount regardless ?

Or for an even simpler one - let's say I double the precision on man's longbow unit. Would it be worth more or less than double it's previous cost ? On the one hand, against a big swathe of units, it would most likely do exactly the same damage as it's less accurate predecessor, on the other hand against say a single attacking mage it would be orders of magnitude more powerful.

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

Well the game has a set # of resource cost for each item in it. However the Developers lost the napkin they had it on so we don't know the exact numbers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You'll also note that the effects of statistics are not linear. So if, say, you double the precision of a longbowman, he is not twice as effective, but probably 4 or 5x as effective. Thus there is no simple way to measure that effect. The best way is to look at the base game units and take a compariable look at gold cost vs unit specific stats/abilities and come up with a balanced answer for it.

P.S. The reason Niefel Jarl are 500 gold is they are insta-supercombatants. They have Water Paths so can go underwater and have access to Quickness and if given a small set of equipment, become terrors in and of themselves.

[ January 22, 2004, 03:50: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So what would *you* give them as a gold cost if they had no magic paths ?

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

Just removing all their magic? Or their magic, holy levels, and sacred status? Or a unit with comprable stats and no special effects? And for Jotun still?

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Magic including holy.

Is the nation the unit is for relevant to how much the unit should cost ? I honestly had not considered that given I am trying to create a new nation from more or less scratch.

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

Well if you took away all their magic and their holy (but left their sacred) I'd consider 250ish. They lost a total of 8 Magic Levels (including the Holy) and now are regulated to being on-land without the help of a magic item. Though for Niefel this might be too low. Since they could churn them out and equip them with a Rainbow fairly quickly and cause alot of havok with minimal cost (250 Gold and a Wraith Sword would probably do the trick fairly well, Boots of Quickness, and a Ring of Regen would complement it nicely).

The cost dependant on the nation is primarily a "What would Zen think" and not a "Game mechanic" argument. The Nations I like use all their troops just for different purposes or different combinations. Thus if you had a big beater like the Giant I'd hope the cost would be modified with how easy it is to abuse and either adjust the stats or the cost to make it balanced vs opponents and in the internal structure of the nation.

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you download the combat sim, and put a new unit in the "UnitTypes.txt" file (specify armors and weapons), it will autocalculate the resource cost for you. Or you can do it manually by reading the sticky thread about equipment stats. Those resource costs are for size-2 units: the armor resource value scales with size.

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

Holy is a big reason to increase cost, in my book, since:

1) They will cost half to maintain, and maintenance cost is about as important as purchase cost, in the long run, particularly for units that might survive a long time.

2) Holy units can have various beneficial spells cast on them that others can't, most obviously, blessings which can add large improvements to their stats.

PvK

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

If you look at Pythium's two themes, Hydra cost 250 gold in normal theme and 300 gold in serpent cult, where they become sacred. Likewise, Hydra hatchlings go from 50 to 60. On the other hand, Serpent Cataphract stay at 60 gold.

I think part of a unit cost is dependant on nation, with some nations/themes having deliberately lower cost for certain units (like Ulm paying 10 gold for his heavy infantry, where similar units are 15-25 gold for other nations). Still, sacred costing +20% gold seems about right to me...

Re: Custom units/commanders - assigning cost ?
 

Sacred normally costs 25-50% more.

Ulm does not cost more than other soldiers because they are not better trained. They have the same stats as other units, but they have beter equipment. Equipment does not cost gold, but resources.

Unit costs
Militia/archer: Skills: 8, prec 10, Cost 8
Regular soldier: Skills: 10, Cost: 10
Elite: Skills: 11, Mrl: 11-12, Cost 13-15
Special troops: Skills 12, Mrl: 13-15, Cost 20+

These are not absolutes and may vary from nation to nation. Arcoscephale has the cheapest elites in the game (hoplites with skills 11, mrl 12, cost 12). This might be considered an advantage. Mictlan has cheaper troops (cost 9), Ulm has lower MR and higher HP, etc.