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Which pretender design is best...?

For the Orania War MP game over on DominionsX...

I'm Tien Chi.

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

You'd have to state what theme you are using and what effects you are going for.

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

You should try and break that habit. In ANY question, there is never a "best". There is only pros and cons.

[ February 10, 2004, 20:29: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

As the options indicate... Spring and Autumn is definitely my intention at the moment. The terrain around tien chi in the scenario won't really support a high resource strat.

If someone else has a different theory, I'd be eager to hear it.

I was focusing on paths in my response, because the scale settings for S+A are pretty automatic...

T1 (required)
L3
M1+ (required)

I prefer growth over productivity, since you can overtax and take climate for more nation points (if needed) without supply hell, but that's just me...

I did give an example of how the points might be spent, but I didn't want to constrain the choices prematurely, since I'm hoping someone has a clever suggestion.

Rabe the Probable Solstice Avoider

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

Quote:

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
You should try and break that habit. In ANY question, there is never a "best". There is only pros and cons.

Of course, Gandalf....but I am soliciting opinions, not ex cathedra level Bulls. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I gave a context and asked for a preference, with footnotes, if needed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Do I seem chronically epistemically simplistic, or was I just using casual idiom? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Rabe the Dogmatic Pretender? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ February 10, 2004, 20:36: Message edited by: rabelais ]

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

Quote:

Originally posted by rabelais:
The terrain around tien chi in the scenario won't really support a high resource strat.

I prefer growth over productivity, since you can overtax and take climate for more nation points (if needed) without supply hell, but that's just me...

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

Quote:

Originally posted by Arryn:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rabelais:
The terrain around tien chi in the scenario won't really support a high resource strat.

I prefer growth over productivity, since you can overtax and take climate for more nation points (if needed) without supply hell, but that's just me...

I would think that if you feel constrained by resources, you'd want all of it that you can get, hence taking Productivity over Growth. Perhaps I'm overlooking something? <hr /></blockquote>Both is definitely preferable, (some of the choices in the poll are nearly pure scales) but given the growth income (and accumulative) advantages, it seems more critical long term.

Again if you have an alternate theory/plan, with particular scale settings, I'm very interested in hearing about it before I submit my pretender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Rabe the Nata Newbie

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

Well if you are going to go S&A I'd stay away from Bless Effects as a mentality. S&A is very limited in it's use of it's sacreds and your armies will not be primarily comprised of them, neither can they sustain themselves against SC's by a blessing alone.

T1
L3
M1

And I'd pick Productivity over Growth, because no matter how much you don't want to use the standard troops of TC, you will be forced to, in order to keep your elite units free of attrition. Early game I'd suspect you are going to be relying heavily on Flaming Arrows regardless, so you need to be able to get as many bowman as you can.

LoF is my standard for S&A as I don't like the automatic Astral of the Jade Emperor which forces you to invest considerable points into him in order to become Astral King.

TC in it's current form (With Celestial Masters being migets on the Mind Duel survivability food chain) it will be extremely difficult for you to wage any wars if you are near any astrally powerful nations as you have to null the best aspect of your theme (the CM's). Hopefully one of your starting provinces is lizards.

I don't envy you that game. While I love S&A, it is far from competitive. Better break out the Courtesans and send them to anyone near Pythium, Rlyeh, or Arco soften up diplomacy so you don't have to work uphill, both ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:
Well if you are going to go S&A I'd stay away from Bless Effects as a mentality. S&A is very limited in it's use of it's sacreds and your armies will not be primarily comprised of them, neither can they sustain themselves against SC's by a blessing alone.

...

And I'd pick Productivity over Growth, because no matter how much you don't want to use the standard troops of TC, you will be forced to, in order to keep your elite units free of attrition. Early game I'd suspect you are going to be relying heavily on Flaming Arrows regardless, so you need to be able to get as many bowman as you can.

....

I don't envy you that game. While I love S&A, it is far from competitive. Better break out the Courtesans and send them to anyone near Pythium, Rlyeh, or Arco soften up diplomacy so you don't have to work uphill, both ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I agree that initially bowmen will be critical, but as a practical matter, starting with 5 clustered provs, it didn't seem to increase output so enormously as to be worth the trouble.

I was looking at the water blessing since all the mages are sacred, and earth, because it makes for a better SC, I don't otherwise really get the path... and reinvig isn't a bad thing with the high enc of TC's mages. But I agree the +4 defense is not as attractive as usual.

I do have a pure scale option in the poll, but S+A stardard units beg for a radical strategy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

And I understand that S+A is a risky theme, just seems like a nearly optimal place to try it, since some expansion has already been done for you...

Pity Courtesans can't assasinate, you'd think they'd be able to get between the target and bodyguards pretty easily. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks for your continued thoughts,

Rabe the Mandarin-Elect

Re: Which pretender design is best...?

All your mages can cast quickness already. (They all start with 1 Water).

Earth of at least 4 (if you are looking for a Blessing) would work well. Though depending on your points.

Quote:

I agree that initially bowmen will be critical, but as a practical matter, starting with 5 clustered provs, it didn't seem to increase output so enormously as to be worth the trouble.

Well all your opponents are going to start with 5 provinces too, right? What's going to stop them from building troops? You can't rely early game on having an adequate enough research or gem income to counter masses of troops (Imagine say, Man with Longbows).

Growth doesn't impact the early game much at all, and if you can't survive the early game, the late game doesn't matter especially if you have 17 other conflicting dominions. But that is my personal stance. Since you have access to Nature Mages, you don't have to, in reality, worry about not being able to make winebags/cauldrons if you need supply.

[ February 10, 2004, 21:17: Message edited by: Zen ]