Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

In keeping with the current running forum theme, I've been thinking about what the best supercombatants (not based on a pretender chassis) that you can make are, and what do you equip them with?

I'll start. The two standard ones for me are:

Wraith Lord (or Bane Lord for a cheaper Version)
- Wraith sword
- Horror Helm
- Jade Armor
- Flying boots
- Luck Pendant
- Amulet of Antimagic
With 3D, the one useful buff seems to be Soul Vortex.

Golem
- Charcoal Shield
- Scrutata Volturnus (shock shield)
- Starshine Skullcap
- Stymphalian Armor
- Boots of Quickness
- Amulet of Antimagic
- Stone Bird or Dancing Trident
With 3S, The golem can cast Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Personal Luck, Twist Fate, and Astral Weapon before stomping away.

This golem works well (against the AI at least) as an uber-trampler, far more effective at destroying huge numbers of enemies compared to the Wraith Lord, where enemies seem to route and escape more often. I'm wondering what people think of the 2-shield choice, though, and reagining a weapon by using a misc slot. Another limitation is the golem's only size 5, so enemy size 5-6 units can't be stomped

I once summoned a Tartarian Titan with, IIRC, 2E 2W 2S, which I equipped somewhat like the golem above, and which worked great, since he was size 6, had 200+ base hp, and could cast some elemental buffs.

So for fun:

1) What are your favorite non-pretender SC's?

2) What's the cheapest (near-)SC you can build?

3) If you had all research complete, mages of all the necessary paths for summoning/forging, and all the gems you needed, what's the most uber SC you can dream up? (Ground rules: no wishing for pretenders, and no empowering to insane levels).

[ May 17, 2004, 21:59: Message edited by: LintMan ]

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

Ice Devils, equipped how you want to.

I greatly prefer Bane Lords to Wraith Lords. The power of the Bane Lords is their cheapness and not having to equip them fully in order to have them do their duty.

Another, seemingly neglected "SC" are Firbolgs.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

My favourite is ice devils, since they are cheap to equip, and relatively inexpensive to summon.

Unlike Zen, I prefer wraith lords to bane lords, as I tend to fully equip my bane lords, so I might as well pay the extra 30 death gems to get the wraith lord. I also really like SCs with soul vortex, as it lets me use a much wider variety of the more interesting weapons.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bane Lords and Firbolgs provide an excellent "bang for the buck" value. The BL is arguably the most cost-effective (efficient) summon for SC-type usage.

The WL is not so much better than the BL to justify its greater cost in most cases. Sure, the WL is better, but unless you have a huge surfeit of death gems, you'll be better off with BLs and using the extra death gems for something else (more summons, items, alchemy, whatever).

My 2g on the subject.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't see this as an "or" thing. I see this as an And thing. Bane Lords are both cheaper and available sooner than Wraith Lords. As such, neither supplants the other: Bane Lords are better when you need cheap pocket SCs, Wraith Lords are better when you need something with more wallop and power to them. Bane Lords can form the ridge-crest of your SC forges while the Wraith Lords fill in where Bane Lords don't suffice. Think cruisers and battleships here.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

The Primary Concern between Bane Lords and Wraith Lords is:

Gem Usage. I find it a much more efficent use of my gems to summon 3 BL's and equip them modestly that will outperform 1 WL with Full or even partial Equipment.

It may be that my playstyle does not limit me to my own dominion (meaning I don't build units to fight best in my own dominion) and the 'pure defense' unit that I use to clean my own Dominion late in the game (Where you'd use WL's) is the Demilich who, for what I use them for, is much more of a stopping unit with little to no equipment. It is also along a better research path in my mind.

That is just my opinion, but WL's can work if you need them to; just not how I use them.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

One that might be overlooked would be the amphibious Elemental Queen of Water. If memory serves, she comes with all item slots, decent although not outrageous hp, zero base encumberance without the vulnerabilities associated with being undead (can't recall whether she has the 'magic unit' flag however, possibly), and most niftily she regenerates half her hit points every turn.

[Edit (Correction): QoW do not get feet slots. This is somewhat alleviated by the fact that with water magic they can cast Quickness themselves, but it does make it harder to, say, have them fly (no Winged Shoes -- do you want to give them Stymphalian Wings instead and take the armor lot) or reinvig (no messenger shoes) or tough skin (no Boots of Stone, so prot needs to come from armor slot mostly, which probably means no ethereal unles you use a Wraith Crown, etc)].

If you wanted to go to an absurd extreme, a Tartarian Titan with Sun Slayer or Mage Bane, Aegis, Amon Hotep, Elemental Armor (or Robe of Shadows?), Boots of Quickness, Pendant of Luck, Talisman of Antimagic would be pretty nasty. For more fun, prophetize it and replace a misc item with the Ark.

[Edit: Sun Slayer is 2-HD, so cannot be combined with Aegis on a Tartarian Titan. Since the Sun Slayer's effect is 'Area Death', however, it may be a worthwhile exchange...]

[ May 20, 2004, 00:59: Message edited by: Taqwus ]

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

The best SC I've seen was from Ermor... I believe it's one of his heroes. In any case it's defense was 35 with almost no items equipped plus his movement pts on the battlefield were very high.

Someone who has played Ermor could probably give the details.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

Etimmu the Wraith Lord: One of the best heroes in the game. His base defense is only 16, though, so even with experience, unless he had a defense-increasing heroic attribute, it wouldn't have given him 35 defense with no items.

But still, if you get him relatively early in the game, which is not uncommon, you can slap a Wraith Sword and perhaps some Jade Armor on him, and he's a complete terror, able to plow through indies with ease. He's also immortal! Mine has Heroic Quickness. Muhahahaha.

Re: Best non-pretender SC\'s?
 

Cheap & unlimited (in numbers) SC chassis I like -

Bane Lords.

Jotun Herses/Scouts.

Firbolgs, although I use them mainly as leaders, with an occasional ranged weapon.

Cream of the crop - if you're lucky enough with Tartarian Gate to get non-crippled undead leaders, my favorite is the earth/air Cyclops - cheap, incredibly tough, access to good buffs, and - Last but not least - can cast Cloud Trapeze to hit your enemy where it hurts the most (before he can move).

Troll Kings and Sea Kings - who may qualify as 'cheap' if you see them as a mere byproduct of the not-so-cheap Court rituals - also deserve a mention.