A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

If commander A casts communion slave in round 1 and commander B casts communion slave in round 2 and commander C casts communion master in round 3, will C be the master of A or B or A and B or none of the above? What if commander D casts slave in round 4 -- will C then be master of all 3? What if commander E casts master in round 5? Basically, wondering if there is a general rule here.... thanks much!

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

i don't know much about communion yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
so a similiar question comes to my mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif :

how does it work with multiple communion masters ?
you could e.g. take 3 arch theurgs with 4 communion slaves each to battle as pythium .
will then every of the arch theurgs have a communion with 4 communion slaves or what's the result ?

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

At any given time, -all- Communion Slaves are considered slaves of -all- Communion Masters.

Note that you are only a Communion Slave/Master once you've cast that spell (unless it's automatic, which it is if you have the appropriate crystal matrix, or are a Pythium communicant). This can cause some issues if you have a particularly fast Communion Master.

For instance, suppose you're playing Pythium and have an Arch-Theurg leading a large communion of Theurgs, Theurg Acolytes, and Communicants. Suppose also that the Arch-Theurg is very experienced, and has the ability of Heroic Quickness from being in the Hall of Fame (or, more easily, by wearing boots of quickness). His first two spells scripted might be 'Communion Master' and, say, 'Summon Earth Power' (perhaps he's an earth mage, and you want the communicants to get reinvigoration).

Well, the Communicants will all get the 4 reinvig from SEP, since they're all automatically communion slaves. Any Theurgs/Theurg Acolytes that acted -before- the AT will also get it. Any only act later, however, will not (unless they have the crystal matrices) because they're not yet communion slaves; hence, these will not get the reinvigoration.

Now, if there were another AT who later casts Communion Master, both Communion Masters benefit fully from all the slaves -- and all the slaves will get fatigue from both ATs' casting, which could be rough in a long battle unless there's earth or nature magic (earthpower, relief) available.

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

thnx taqwus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

are there particular spells which are extremely nasty with a communion especially for pythium killing sc's or would it be better to have several arch theurgs casting e.g. soul slay without the communicants ?

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The spells you *do* cast, even if it is soul slay or paralyze will benefit from increased magic level and, therefore, better MR penetration, for every communion master. You might especially consider using Enslave, depending on what SCs you are talking about and the risk/reward for that particular SC.

The nice thing about communion is, with randoms, it gives you tons of flexibility in the spells you can cast so it will depend on what kind of SC you are facing and what your research level is. To be more specific, with a base A2, communioned arch theurgs could cast some nasty orb lightnings but does the opposing SC have shock resistance ? There are a ton of spells that are situationally useful, resistance to elements, storm, wrath, etc.

Petrify is a popular SC killer but might be tough with Pyt. Takes a random in earth and what, 16 slaves if you don't have a path enhancer ? Well, 8 and a couple gems maybe but still...

And, of course, the stamina reduction/diffusion don't hurt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

- Kel

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

hm does communion also increase the holy levels ?
with banishment : does a higher holy level only increase the area effect of banishment or also damage / chance that it does penetrate the undeads mr ?

if it works like i think could a powerful communion than perhaps even successfully banish undead sc's or even e.g. a vq ?

@kel of course you get a bit higher chance but it is only 1 point higher penetration per 2 points of astral magic . so if you take 64 communicants you get +3 penetration but this is the absolute maximum which is possible i think .
but you are right it's a nice sideeffect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

but how does phönix pyre work ? it says that the caster revives as long as he is not fatigued out ? can you combine this with a huge communion and so make the phönix pyre user almost undefeatable because he should not fatigue out as long as the communion slaves are not killed ?
especially if you take a 0 encumberance char for this like a pod/vq ?
is there a item which casts communion master at the start of battle ?

what are very good massdestruction spells where damage and/or area of effect/number of effects ... increase the higher your skill in the path is ?

[ July 12, 2004, 15:17: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

Enslave and Soul Slay could be nice, but it's possible to outfit an SC with an eye towards extreme MR (the most outrageous extreme kit might include Magebane, lead shield, Amon Hotep, armor of souls, antimagic amulet). And if the SC is backed by mages casting spells like Antimagic, ugh.



One might note that since communion boosts effective casting level, not only does penetration increase but also a number of spells increase in range, damage, number of effects or both. Orb Lightning, for instance, is an obvious one for Pythium to try against decently armored enemies. In terms of unresistable spells, Petrify is there but as noted is not easily available; Crystal Mages could help here (earth-2, astral-2; give earth boots for earth-3; cast SEP for earth-4 and reinvig). Against lightning-immune SCs with decent MR, you might want to put penetration-bonus items e.g. rune smasher (+2), spell focus (+2), even ring of sorcery or wizardry (each +1, and +1 to relevant paths) if you can.
Power of the Spheres + Starshine Skullcap + somebody holding Banner of the Northern Star + 8-15 communicants = +6 astral level; Ring of Sorcery, Wizardry, or a Tome of High Power would be another +1 without attracting horrors if you can afford it.
+6 astral should give on average +3 more penetration (+1 per 2 levels above what's necessary) +maybe +4 in penetration items (rune smasher/spell focus) should give ~+7 penetration on your Soul Slay/Enslave Mind which should make it not too unlikely to work against an SC who's meant to resist physical and elemental damage and not just magic.

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, communion increases holy levels as well.

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes but the point is that it is better penetration on EVERY master, every cast. I am not talking 64 communicants, I am talking 8 communicants, 6 archs (just for example) and maybe a couple of spell focuses or a BotNS to help. Yes, against uber MR SCs, you won't get far but that was the point of why it's not the same for every pretender (and why I listed some other options *cough*). 18 MR SCs are quite reasonable to take down with astral. Try 6 quickened archs casting Enslave with 2-4 penetration (that's 12 MR checks per round with a 2-4 mod). I have picked up many SC's and national heroes that way (though mostly as Arco).

- Kel

Re: A Question of Timing 2: Communion Master/Slave
 

You may want to reconsider using Phoenix Pyre cast by a communion master unless your entire army is fire-immune. The spell affects any communion slaves, as well, and an unlucky death due to a lucky arrow or spell could result in a very dramatic chain-reaction of massive explosions wiping out large chunks of your army.



Under some circumstances it may be possible to abuse this effect, but if you're not prepared it could backfire on you very, very badly.