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-   -   Stupid military planners... (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=22802)

geoschmo February 16th, 2005 11:04 AM
Stupid military planners...
 
Haven't any of them seen Terminator? Anyone who has can tell them this is a bad idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Link to article

Riesig_Bar February 16th, 2005 11:39 AM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
No they are not sci fi fans. So they don't know about all the movies or books that "warn" of computers taking over. Like the Matrix or as you said Terminator. Think about it. I remember the final lines of an old sci fi book. Some of you may know it.

"let there be light. And there was light"

May not be exact but you get the point.

Azselendor February 16th, 2005 01:23 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
How many millions did that cost?

Hell, 127 Billion!

We could build the exact same thing with a camcordering, a toy RC car, a machine gun, and a roll of duct tape for far less

Gozra February 16th, 2005 01:52 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
It's the documantation that cost so much. We had a old hardware removal project for the Air Force that coust 1.2 million. 30,000 to remove the hardware and 1,170,000 to change the doucmentation. And it's not 170 billion it will end up being 340 billion or so. Remember the 430 toilet seat for the Navy? Everyone got hopping mad about it and Congress decided to fix the system well they fixed it all right we now have a situation were the lowest bidder gets the contract but now 9 out of 10 times the lowest bid is not enough money to make the contract work correctly so we save money up front but spend 2-3 times as much making the project work the way it should than we would have spent if we had done it right in the first place. Penny wise dollar foolish.

Starhawk February 16th, 2005 02:29 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
Okay people what that article does also mention is that every military planner with brains in his head has already stated that they do not intend to replace soldiers entirely with robots as that would be foolish and stupid, especially since a machine can not handle every situation that a soldier can.

They are planning on using them to augment ground forces, basically they'd be the ones to get shot at first so that human soldiers don't have to be killed in scouting and the like. And if that's true I think a robot soldier controlled by a person is a good idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hunpecked February 16th, 2005 02:30 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
Riesig_Bar writes:

> "let there be light. And there was light" <

"The Last Question", short story by Isaac Asimov. First read it decades ago, still one of my favorites.

It's even available on line:

http://dookaloosy.dyndns.org/wail_-_..._-_Asimov1.htm

Gozra February 16th, 2005 03:54 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
Still the coming of the Robots may or may not be good. Is it the next evloutionary step? And what happens when you can wage war and expose very, very small portions of your population to danger?

TheDeadlyShoe February 16th, 2005 04:14 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
dummmmb

how is a robot supposed to discriminate friendlies? Any specific marker scheme can be spoofed or worse, sabotaged. Are they going to be used as Berserkers- point em in a direction and they shoot anything vaguely human looking?

Going to be just another money farm for defense contractors- decades at least.

General Woundwort February 16th, 2005 05:02 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
From Strategypage.com

Quote:
February 3, 2005: The reports of combat robots headed for Iraq are somewhat misleading. These UGVs (Unmanned Ground Vehicles) are controlled remotely by a human operator. The weapon these UGVs will carry will be fired by the human operator. A truly robotic weapon makes its own decision when to fire. UGVs that operate like this are not far away, even though that’s a scary prospect for many people. But such true combat robots are nothing new, they have been around for over a century. The first such combat robots were naval mines. Which lurked just below the surface, and exploded if a ship ran into them. Simple, effective and definitly robotic. Another 19th century development was the torpedo, which was initially thought of as a self-propelled naval mine. That was an accurate description, until World War II. That was when even smarter torpedoes were developed, like the German acoustic homing torpedo. This one went after the sound of a surface ship. After World War II, the wake homing torpedo (which sensed the wake of a surface ship and used that to find and destroy the ship) was developed. Land mines are also robotic weapons, and new versions were developed in the 1980s (WAAM) that were placed on the surface, and used sensors to detect targets. Anti-vehicle weapons were then fired into the air, and used more sensors to find, identify and destroy vehicles below. There are now naval mines with powerful computers on board, which make complex decisions on when, and what, to attack. These robotic weapons don't attract much attention.

But self-propelled armed land robots will not be so easily accepted. And we will soon find out to what extent. For example, there are already heat imaging systems equipped with software that can identify vehicles and people. These are now used for security purposes, but the technology exists to fit a weapon to these systems and produce a self-propelled vehicle that can patrol an area, and shoot at any vehicle or people it encounters. Manufacturers of these systems will point out that friendly troops operating near the killer robots can carry IFF (Identify, Friend of Foe) devices. But several generations of science fiction stories featuring evil killer robots will make these systems controversial. In response, developers are proposing fitting such systems with non-lethal weapons. A more likely solution is making the systems semi-autonomous. That is, the robots have to call for a human operator to confirm the use of lethal force. However, as the software and sensors become more capable, there will be the temptation to let the armed robots act on their own more and more. This will come from the fact that the battlefield is becoming more and more automated. This reduces friendly casualties. But the troops who are out there are always overworked and short of sleep. Letting the robots stay up all night pulling guard duty is an ever-present temptation. One solution for that is “remote support.” The technology exists to have some of the armed robots monitored via satellite link by troops, or even civilians, somewhere else in the world, like back in the United States. This is already being done with some UAVs.

In theory, the very intelligent and capable armed robot is possible. But human nature being what it is, people will remain somewhere “in the loop” for some time to come. Or maybe not. Future battlefields will be full of armed robots, exactly how these robots will operate remains an open question.
BTW, I thought the "let there be light" quote was from Dark Star...

Riesig_Bar February 16th, 2005 05:33 PM
Re: Stupid military planners...
 
I knew someone else would know it. Of course the puter in that one didn't take over in a violent way. But the concept is there.

I don't know this "Dark Star" But I am pretty sure that after the Bible, Asimov gets the credit sci fi wise.


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