Technological arms races
 

What is your opinion on taking cloaking & sensors, and giving them something like 12 levels?

The research costs go up rapidly, so its not worth researching all the way to the top, but you still have to keep one step ahead of your opponent http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

And before contact, you have to decide how far to go in each, and when to devote to battle techs.
"Is sensors VII enough? What if somebodys sneaking around here with Cloak VIII? Is it worth worrying about?"
With lots of levels, you can get the distinct atmosphere of paranoia http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Also, with sufficiently advanced sensors, you could detect low-tech mines, higher level mines would still be invisible, or have a super-cloak component you can add.

Re: Technological arms races
 

I like it. I'm all for putting as much strategy in as possible. I had toyed with the idea of mine and creating one type of mine that was visible to each type of sensor, one that was visible without any sensors and one that was always invisible but I got no time to test them. Plus I'm great at adding the extra blank line it seems and screwing it up http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Technological arms races
 

I was thinking about adding in individual cloaking items to cloak to higher levels on each individual cloaking type.

It would end up with a ship cloaked against all as long as they had one of each of the 5 components needed to cloak to that level.

so a cloaking unit for each of
active em, passive em, psychic em, gravitic , and temporal.

So if each cloaking unit is 40KT apiece that is going to take up 200KT of space and probably cost quite a bit and perhaps require a cloaking device already and these add to it.

If you don't use one perhaps that temporal race can see you but you might not care about them but you do about the psychics so they don't take your ships.

Re: Technological arms races
 

These are good ideas. Can they be implemented as a mod, with current SEIV code? Or would MM need to change the code to allow someone to implement it?

Re: Technological arms races
 

Taking a look at components.txt for the Cloaking Device, you see that it has five abilities--one each to prevent EM active, EM passive, Psychic, Gravitic and Temporal Scans. So, it is easily possible to add this cool idea to the game.

Re: Technological arms races
 

I have been doing the mine s with cloaking components for some time now. They seem to work OK!

You just design a component that is a small one of the the normal one, as for weapons.
I also have a scanner jammer available as well.

The whole idea of this game is a sacrifice available room to what you want it to do, Do I put another warhead in it and make it visible or hide it?

I like the idea of the very high tech levels of scanners Vs cloaking. This was one of my reasons to remove the normal cloaking ability from the mines and made them have a cloaking component.

Re: Technological arms races
 

I did not raise the cloaking level, but added a additional tech requirements. Cloaking 1 is now not available until Physics 4. I also added a propulsion requirement to provide the necessary power to cloak. Each Cloaking Level also has higher Physics and Propulsion requirements. For Sensors I just added Physics at 1 level higher than the Cloaking level.

I also did the same with some other components I thought were very powerful and too easy to get.

Name := Cloaking Device I
Description := Field generated around a starship which passes all energy around the ship. This field has the effect of rendering the ship invisible.
Pic Num := 38
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 1000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 500
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat
Supply Amount Used := 100
Restrictions := None
General Group := Shields
Family := 26
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Cloaking
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 2 := 4
Number of Abilities := 5
Ability 1 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 1 Descr := Prevents level 1 Active EM scans.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 2
Ability 2 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 2 Descr := Prevents level 1 Passive EM scans.
Ability 2 Val 1 := EM Passive
Ability 2 Val 2 := 2
Ability 3 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 3 Descr := Prevents level 1 Psychic scans.
Ability 3 Val 1 := Psychic
Ability 3 Val 2 := 2
Ability 4 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 4 Descr := Prevents level 1 Gravitic scans.
Ability 4 Val 1 := Gravitic
Ability 4 Val 2 := 2
Ability 5 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 5 Descr := Prevents level 1 Temporal scans.
Ability 5 Val 1 := Temporal
Ability 5 Val 2 := 2
Weapon Type := None

Name := Cloaking Device II
Description := Field generated around a starship which passes all energy around the ship. This field has the effect of rendering the ship invisible.
Pic Num := 38
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 1500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 600
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat
Supply Amount Used := 100
Restrictions := None
General Group := Shields
Family := 26
Roman Numeral := 2
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Cloaking
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Tech Area Req 2 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 2 := 6
Tech Area Req 3 := Physics
Tech Level Req 3 := 5
Number of Abilities := 5
Ability 1 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 1 Descr := Prevents level 2 Active EM scans.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 3
Ability 2 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 2 Descr := Prevents level 2 Passive EM scans.
Ability 2 Val 1 := EM Passive
Ability 2 Val 2 := 3
Ability 3 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 3 Descr := Prevents level 2 Psychic scans.
Ability 3 Val 1 := Psychic
Ability 3 Val 2 := 3
Ability 4 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 4 Descr := Prevents level 2 Gravitic scans.
Ability 4 Val 1 := Gravitic
Ability 4 Val 2 := 3
Ability 5 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 5 Descr := Prevents level 2 Temporal scans.
Ability 5 Val 1 := Temporal
Ability 5 Val 2 := 3
Weapon Type := None

Name := Cloaking Device III
Description := Field generated around a starship which passes all energy around the ship. This field has the effect of rendering the ship invisible.
Pic Num := 38
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 2000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 700
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat
Supply Amount Used := 100
Restrictions := None
General Group := Shields
Family := 26
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Cloaking
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 2 := 8
Tech Area Req 3 := Physics
Tech Level Req 3 := 6
Number of Abilities := 5
Ability 1 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 1 Descr := Prevents level 3 Active EM scans.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 4
Ability 2 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 2 Descr := Prevents level 3 Passive EM scans.
Ability 2 Val 1 := EM Passive
Ability 2 Val 2 := 4
Ability 3 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 3 Descr := Prevents level 3 Psychic scans.
Ability 3 Val 1 := Psychic
Ability 3 Val 2 := 4
Ability 4 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 4 Descr := Prevents level 3 Gravitic scans.
Ability 4 Val 1 := Gravitic
Ability 4 Val 2 := 4
Ability 5 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 5 Descr := Prevents level 3 Temporal scans.
Ability 5 Val 1 := Temporal
Ability 5 Val 2 := 4
Weapon Type := None

Name := Tachyon Sensors I
Description := Modulating tachyon sensor grid which can detect cloaked ships in a system.
Pic Num := 39
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 1500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 500
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Sensors
Family := 27
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Sensors
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Tech Area Req 2 := Physics
Tech Level Req 2 := 6
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Sensor Level
Ability 1 Descr := Allows EM Active scanning at level 2.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 2
Weapon Type := None

Name := Tachyon Sensors II
Description := Modulating tachyon sensor grid which can detect cloaked ships in a system.
Pic Num := 39
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 2000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 800
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Sensors
Family := 27
Roman Numeral := 2
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Sensors
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Tech Area Req 2 := Physics
Tech Level Req 2 := 7
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Sensor Level
Ability 1 Descr := Allows EM Active scanning at level 3.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 3
Weapon Type := None

Name := Tachyon Sensors III
Description := Modulating tachyon sensor grid which can detect cloaked ships in a system.
Pic Num := 39
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 2500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 1100
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Sensors
Family := 27
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Sensors
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Tech Area Req 2 := Physics
Tech Level Req 2 := 8
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Sensor Level
Ability 1 Descr := Allows EM Active scanning at level 4.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 4
Weapon Type := None

Re: Technological arms races
 

The point here was not to nessesarily make the techs harder to reach, but to create a one-upmanship cycle.

Ha! Cloaked ships
HA Ha! tachyon sensors!
oh, yeah, i got level 4 now!
no prob, i'll just get level six
too late, I'm at ten!

specific scanner-blocking cloaks would be good, so we could split it up so that you have to research the techs individually, but each one area will give you general cloaking against all, but of a lower level.

Ie. research active-cloak V, get active cloaking lev 5 & general cloak lev 3

Re: Technological arms races
 

I agree Suicide_Junkie- More levels of cloak and sensors are needed. Right now cloaking becomes obsolete rather early in the game once all the sensors have been researched.

Re: Technological arms races
 

I think that just increasing the number of levels for both is the best way to go.

The more tech to get the better, really makes the game more fun.

Increasing the tech points required for the lower end stuff will just unbalance the game I feel.