Armor Penetration Model?
 

Hi,

Is there a standard armor penetration model or formula available for winSPMBT?

I'm trying to add some experimental weapons such as the 50mm x 330 "Supershot" APDS and the 45mm x 305 COMVAT and I have some basic penetration info the rounds, but I'm not sure how it converts to penetration ratings in the game.

Thanks,

Adrian

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

I don't know, but it always seemed to me that one inch of steel armor = one armor unit, taking into account armor slant. For example, a steel plate inclined at about 45 degrees is roughly twice as effective against shot than one at 90 degrees, so 1 inch of armor at 45 degrees = just as good as 2 inches of armor at 90 degrees = 2 armor units. It's just what I think, but it seems like an easy way to convert it if noone else offers a better idea.

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

From the mobhack help
"Each digit, other than for ERA, is very approximately 1 centimetre of thickness at normal"

To the original poster - we are always getting requests for the "armour penetration model". We cannot divulge this as although we have worked on it, it is SSI's proprietary base code. It is also not just a formula - there are 1000's of lines of code involved as well.

If you want to figure out how a gun performs at a given range, set up a firing range scenario, with targets (no weapons to avoid shooting back) of the required armour spotted at various ranges. Shoot at it a statistically significant anount of times (a few hundred shots say), and note the penetration figures returned by the game.

Plus see the Mobhack help page on the weapons tab - range, WH size etc all figure into the equation, not just armour piercing value.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

How to get Penetration in the game:

1. Go into MOBHACK and create some experimental units:

A.) Target Unit; no guns or anything no move; size of like 100~ or something like that and armor of 255 on all aspects.

B.) Firing Stand; Give it Incredibly high vision ratings and fire control stabilization, plus a large amount of ammunition for the gun you're testing.

C.) The Weapon: There are two values which mainly affect penetration I've found; AP Penetration and Weapon Range; changing the Weapon Range allows you to adjust the weapon's ballistics up and down some.

Do several test firings against target units with your weapon at the range specified by your data; keep adjusting AP Pen and Weapon Range until you can consistently score penetration around your data figures.

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

It's actually 1 unit of armor unit = 1 cm of armor.

The Formula to get Armor Thickness with slope taken into account is:

(i'll provide it in MS Excel format to make it easier for youa ll).

Armor Plate Effectiveness=(Thickness / (COS(Degrees from Vertical*0.017453293))

What this means is:
14mm of armor at 50 deg from vertical = 24mm
50mm of Armor at 55 deg from vertical = 87mm
and so on...

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

I did some tests with test stands and targets in WinMBT:

Gun had 10 AP Penetration, each time I ran a series, I changed the weapon range.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7...tration2zj.gif

You can see how the penetration gets flatter out further the longer the weapon's range is.

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

Looking at that chart with the data laid out like it was gave me a brainflash, and I think I've finally figured out the penetration model:

NOTE: The following is my own deductions, it is not endorsed in anyway by SPCAMO, or the programmers!!!!

At a Gun's maximum range it will achieve only 33% of it's penetration.

At half of it's maximum range, it will achieve 66% penetration.

At a quarter of it's maximum range, it will achieve 82-83% penetration.

The variance in values between shots is the code that attempts to simulate real life in the game; e.g. simulating "lucky shots" that hit the tank in just the right spot to cause massive damage.

I did some tests to confirm my hypothesis before embarking on a statistical determination of the in between points; and have produced a spreadsheet that automatically adjusts itself to weapon range/penetration values; making developing guns for MBT/WW2 easy.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/17/pensheet8hd.gif

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

Now - you'll need to factor in warhead size http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

A gun with the same stats, but with greater WH will have more "carry" for the larger round.

(WH size also factors in the kill routine, once a penetration has occured)

Cheers
Andy

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

A gun with the same stats, but with greater WH will have more "carry" for the larger round.

That makes quite a lot of sense; seeing as a bigger bullet will lose energy less over a distance versus a smaller, but faster round; you can see this in real live in the .45 ACP and the 9mm Parabellum debate.

(WH size also factors in the kill routine, once a penetration has occured)

Thanks for confirming my suspicions on this.

Re: Armor Penetration Model?
 

Also forgot - when the penetration value is exactly equal to the armour value, WH size determines the amount of shots that will actually penetrate. (Not part of the original SSI code which penetrated 100% if the AP value >=the armour value, we added the check for Pen==Armour).

So a WH of 1 or 2 say (e.g autocannon, ATR) whose Pen is exactly equal to the defending armour, will have a moderate chance of being stopped, whereas a tank gun of say WH 7 is rather more likely to manage to push through the defending plate in the equal armour situation.

Cheers
Andy