Are we paying more for less?
 

Does anyone else have a problem with the prices here at Shrapnel Games and for the Dominions series in particular? I want to have a serious discussion here. I hate being negative but the business model here just really blows my mind. Years ago I played the Dominions 2 demo and enjoyed it moderately. The graphics were terrible but the game appeared to have depth to it, something that is seriously lacking in today's strategy genre. I was however put off by, what seemed to me to be, exuberant pricing. I was torn by the desire to support an independent developer and publisher making good strategy games, but also not feeling the parties were justified in charging so much for their product: a product with such poor production values. So I would check in every couple of months or so just to see if Shrapnel had lowered the price, so I could finally purchase it. Did they ever lower it? No, and now Dominions 2 has disappeared from their online store, to be replaced by the even more expensive Dominions 3.

I genuinely want to understand this. Practical business says that you charge what the market will bear for your product. Demand is higher upon initial release so you are justified in charging a higher price, but after some time you try to cater to those customers who were on the fence and will only purchase the product when the price comes down. Dominions 2's price never came down, except for one very short-lived monthly special, now it's gone, and once again I as a perspective customer am stuck with the dilemna of wanting to play a strategy game with lots of depth and choices, but not feeling the production values warrant a $55 price tag. Am I alone? I see a lot of people clamoring for the Dominions 3 demo. Obviously you guys don't feel $55 + shipping is reasonable until you actually play the game. That in and of itself says something considering most of you are Dominions 2 fans and familiar with the series.

I just want some type of compromise. You know you have a good thing here with Dominions but you also have to look realistically at the production values of your game over others, along with the standard pricing policies of the industry, and come to the conclusion that maybe you might be even more successful if perhaps you didn't demand so much "loyalty" from people who enjoy your games and want to see good things happen for you and your companies. Charging so much for this series is really just a lose/lose situation. You don't get my money, and I don't get a good game.

Help me help you!

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Well everyone has a different amount of money they are willing to spend for a great game. The dominions games are more expensive than the usual games found at Software Etc or Walmart yet the content quality is well worth the price in my opinion. The manual is also 300 pages of great information which you won't find from any games at the local stores.

I suggest playing the Dominions_3 demo which is free... and then deciding whether or not the game is worth the price. My guess is the dominions_3 demo should be available for free download in about 2 weeks.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I think they do price themselfs out of alot of potential customers..


Poeple see the graphics and such as you said then see a 55 price tag. They'll instantly be turned off..

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I don't work for Shrapnel Games, and I'm very much a fan of the Dominions series. In addition, I was in the beta, so I got to play the game for free. With that said, I want to defend Shrapnel Games' decisions. I can't speak for them, but I can direct you to these blog entries written over a year ago.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blo...mes-Dont-Work/

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blo...mes-Dont-Work/

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blo...-Niche-Retail/

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blo...mes-Dont-Work/

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Very true... it will be the demo which will convince people whether or not it's worth the price. The dominions_2 demo only gave 40_turns hopefully the dominions_3 demo doesn't have the same limitation because many gamers downloading demos will ignore demos with turn limits and time limits.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

The price is a turn off, but on the other hand getting twice the amount of pre-orders than Dominions 2 shows that there is some viability in their aproache. Shaving the price off a bit as time passes wouldn't propably be too bad as the amount of order slowly quiets down.

Then again, I, a student whose main income is refundable soda cans, am willing not only to pay for the game (50 EUR though, Umor bless the €-$ exchange rate) but also wringle a way to order it using another player as proxy.

We all have our treshold of getting stuff. I am quite the scrooge to be honest, but I think Dominions 3 is worth it.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Dominions 3 demo is actually worse than Dom 2 demo from what I gathered. Only 5 Early Age nations, so compared to the total amount of nations it is far less. Not sure about turn limits or research limits.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

The nation and research limits are understandable, but the turn/time limit prevents gamers from enjoying even one good game and prevents seeing everything the demo has to offer. Took me three incomplete and unsatisfying demo games of dominions_2 before I decided to purchase the game instead of one satisfying demo game.
I only downloaded the demo based on the reviews of other gamers in a different forum... otherwise I would never have even tried dominions_2.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Talley, I think all your points make sense, especially your statement about supply and demand, but consider this: Dominions is an infinitely replayable game. Why lower the price, ever? Do you see the price of Risk or Axis & Allies being lowered? Using the computer as a medium, strategy games are taken to a level that a board and table-top war game can never achieve. The only loss is the ability to physically hold and touch the property you own, and to sit down with companions to play in person. I think the gains at least equal the losses. My point is, if they feel their product has that kind of value, there is no reason to lower it just because several years of other kinds of video game marketing has done so. Also, not all video games come down in price very much, anyway. I was in Best Buy the other day and was surprised to see how much Rise of Nations was still going for, and that's a game that I don't feel is as satisfying to play multiple times as Dominions.

You talk about "production values", but it's the value to the customer that's important. Graphics are highly, highly overrated in the strategy gaming genre. I think what you're seeing is a kind of rebound. Since its inception, the video game market has seen a steady increase in the quality of graphical presentation, so it's become habit to expect it. However, I think many people are starting to break the habit and find value in other things.

Look at the pen and paper RPG market and how expensive their books are...books! Yet, people do place high value on them. Nobody can say if Shrapnel is at the correct place on the supply and demand curve except maybe their accountants, but I don't think things are as incorrect as you believe. Maybe it's different from the norm, but not incorrect. Buying this game will prevent me from buying some other games that are going to be cheaper and made by more established companies. So be it.

[Edit: More established companies is incorrect! I should have said, more prominent or well-known companies.]

=$= Big J Money =$=

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

In practical marketing terms I think that there are X number of dominions players who will buy the game (come on, its a whole $5 more than Dom2 was years ago). And I have no problem with the idea that we are definetly getting our money worth.

You seem to be saying that it should be priced less to get more sales. But that means a loss of revenue on that X number of dominions people who would have bought it at 55. And the gain in sales would have to make up for that amount PLUS some gain above it.

The game is rather a niche market. The graphics and such are still likely to cause people to not buy it. So witohut putting it on store shelves (a very expensive action) Im not sure that new sales would make up the difference.

Maybe the sales of Dom3 will prove that the game has sales potential beyond its fanatical players, and that will allow a change for Dom4. But I think that until then its still a gamble. I think the sales on Dom3 were too needed for anyone to consider gambling on this release.

Gandalf Parker