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-   -   Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=34671)

DrPraetorious May 12th, 2007 11:15 AM
Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
I'm doing a position based on the Novgorod republic for late era. They're going to be frostlings (same stats as Vaetti, more or less).

They've got reduced-strength theurgs (to be russian orthodox) as well as vaetti hags. I'm digging through russian folklore for more national summons to go with the frost queens and winter glows (from being frostlings.)

They get wolf riders instead of cavalry - otherwise, how was their military equipped and organized? Their victories over the teutonic knights involved cavalry and archers is all I really know.

Any of you military history buffs care to help me out?

EDIT: okay, no cyrillic support, fine. "Theurgy" is generally just translated as "Magiya", which is presumably cognate to Magic. If that is the word Vladimir Lossky uses to discuss orthodox theology, great.

Arkhimagichiy
Magichiy
(sub-)Magichiy

But I don't speak russian, so this is mostly guesswork.

PvK May 12th, 2007 11:04 PM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
Cool idea! I don't have any detailed info off-hand, but I've made an inquiry...

PvK May 13th, 2007 09:13 PM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
I asked staff at The Wargamer (www.wargamer.com), and got a very nice reply, if you can find any access to these:

At 07:21 PM 5/13/2007 -0400, COL (Ret) Bill Gray wrote:
Quote:

1. Armies of Medieval Russia, 750 - 1250 AD, David Nicole, Angus McBride illus, Osprey 333.

2. WRG De Bellis Multitudinis Army Lists Book 3: 476 AD - 1071 AD, Phil Barker and Richard Bodley Scott, list 78, Early Russian 1054 - 1246 AD (1994)

3. WRG Ancients Army Lists Book 3, Armies Originating after 1000 AD, Phil Barker, list Early Russian 1054 AD - 1246 AD (1982, out of print)

Number two and three are from the same company, with number three being most detailed (eg, Druzhina Heavy Cavalry, Morale Grade B, Javelin or Light Spear, Shield; Polovtsy skirmishers, etc) as it is the more tactical game. For the DBM army lists, you would likely need the rules to translate some of the specifics. Both lists cover from the breakup of the Kievian state until the Mongol conquest.

An American set called Warrior has pretty much supplanted WRG Ancients, but I have a copy of the base rules only, so I have no idea if they have included the early Russians in their expansion army lists. If you can somehow get your hands on number three above, it will give you, in well researched (as in archaeological references) wargame terms, more than you would ever want to know about this army.

Regards, Bill Gray

DrPraetorious May 13th, 2007 09:43 PM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
I managed to dig up #1, easily enough.

#2 took some asking around, but I've got it.

#3 I can't find http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. Which is too bad, because I like detail.

And thanks a lot!

PvK May 14th, 2007 12:31 AM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
Cool - that was fast finding those! I'll be looking forward to seeing your mod when it eventually emerges! I'll pass on your thanks to Colonel Bill. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Sombre May 14th, 2007 01:11 AM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
Are you still working on Padmassa Dr.P? With the new sprite extraction I would think you can now do most of the graphics for it.

DrPraetorious May 14th, 2007 01:42 AM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
Yes, I'm still working on Padmassa, but I've got several projects up in the air at once and I do have a job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

I've yet to actually try the sprite extraction myself - I keep expecting a library of the in-game sprites to appear for me to download.

Sombre May 14th, 2007 07:25 AM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
I wouldn't hold your breath for that library. The sprite extraction is very very nearly as good anyway - you can easily clip riders and mounts and swap them around etc.

Attack sprites don't have to be huge change either. Just a reangled arm or weapon.

PvK May 14th, 2007 02:52 PM
Re: Question: 13th Century Novgorod Military
 
More info from Colonel Bill:
Quote:
BTW, there is a second Osprey out that continues the subject of Russian armies out until about 1500, same authors with a Russian colleague added. Both WRG books have an army list for this period as well. I'll see what I can do for that one page out of the WRG Ancients army list.

Regards, Colonel Bill


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