how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

so we are noobs experincing the game for the first time. my friend says r'lyeh is overpowered. I don't think he is quite right, since i've never had any problems with them as such.

what do you experts say? how d oyou counter r'lyehs mindflaying ways?

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

Just out of curiosity, is this friend of yours playing in a MP game (and if yes, which!11), or has he come to that conclusion from SP games alone?

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

this guys is a beginner with just 3-4 SP 1 on 1 maps under his belt. he got smacked playing as abysia, helheim and something other. but starting out with r'lyeh against pythium he found no resistance whatsoever.

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

Maybe these could get you started?

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...?Number=540765

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...?Number=522661

Good luck! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

seems everyone has problems with r'lyeh! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

If you have a problem with massed troops who mind blast you, use ranged units
set to "fire archers" to shoot them to pieces. Their meat shields are nothing
to write home about.

If you are having a problem with their mastery of astral magic, it's hardly any
different than other astral races.

If you are having problems with going after them underwater, the solution is the
same as with any other water nation - keep them off the dry lands, and eventually
overwhelm them with your much higher magic gem income.

If you are facing a competent player, and thus having a problem with all of the
above... well, that's the way of Dominions. R'lyeh is a very good race, probably
one of the best in the Late Era, and no slouch earlier.

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

Illithids have high health(making them fairly arrow resistant) and R'lyeh can handle enemy archers both by having their own archers as decoys(a few groups of indy archers should divert your arrow fire) and by telling their illithids to fire archers. Their meat-shields aren't great compared to other troops but they are for their cost and what you want them to be - mindless, unroutable blocks of health. Late-game buffs(army of gold/lead, fog warriors ect) are also great on them due to the number you can recruit.

Their astral magic not different from other astral nations? Generally true, except for the facts that it is stronger than that of many other astral nations and that they have their best mages(who are very good) recruitable in all under-water forts.

Keeping them off dry land isn't that easy. MA and LA R'lyeh are practically 100% amphibious and are about as strong on land as they are in the water. Keeping them off land is just like defending against another land nation - except that you can't attack them and they can target a large number of your provinces easily.

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

oops! have I stepped into a hornet's nest? =)

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

In General I laught if I see people field illithids agianst me. To me they are nothing more then oversized practice targets. They may be useful against indipendents to lower your looses but against an equaly expewnsive army they are a complete waste. Any unit of equal cost will kill them.

I find the power with R'lyeh is thier ability to mass unbreakable lobo guards. It can be very problematic to get enough units not to get swamped in loboguards. My only advise is to anticipate the attack and buy plenty of pd to get chaff.

Given that you are playing 1v1 my guess is not that he is winning by useing powerful late game astral magic.

Re: how do you counter r\'lyeh
 

I'm playing Rlyeh now, and their late game is pretty ridiculous, and their research to get there is blindingly fast, with 8-RP recruit-anywhere mages.

Their astral magic IS significantly different from other astral races, in that EVERY ONE of their mages can cast teleport out of the box, not just the cap-only ones. What that means is that you can expect a steady stream of magic-dueling suicide bombers aimed at any mages you have in your army to counter their mind hunting or get off that vital antimagic cast against them. Other astral races can't really afford to be so callous about tossing their S4 mages at you to die, since they generally get 1/turn with a lucky random, tops. Other than that, yes, their astral spell list is the same, and having high MR will give them fits. (Marverni has S2 and 2 randoms on non-caps, so they could get multiple S3-4's per turn, but they're 100 more gold each, 1 less base astral, and Marverni isn't known for making it to the late-game...I think they're the only shot at multiples S3 without 10% random picks though)

That being said, rlyeh's early expansion is fairly slow, and their mid-game kind of sucks, I lost a couple of battles with Pan where I had 8 times the gold value of his troops on the field...Pan is a particularly bad matchup due to high innate MR, but still, I got destroyed. Illithid mind-blast artillery is too expensive for how effective it is in most cases, and lobos suck at anything except being damage sponges. Other ground troops are either 30 resources (on a sloth-3 nation) or have 8 morale, so pre-nether darts rlyeh's ability to inflict damage on a large army is sorely lacking, since their mages have weak or single-target spells, and their troops are either horribly overpriced or fairly ineffective. (Crab hybrids being the exception, but they're aquatics)

So, to beat them, expand faster than them, keep them off the land as much as you possibly can, and hope that you have enough of an income advantage to beat them in the war of attrition that will occur late-game, since teleporting everywhere does get costly. Raid the hell out of anything you can with either a stack of commanders and scouts with some chaff (make them burn 10 mind hunts to stop you), or else a single commander with good base MR, a lead shield, a skullcap, and an antimagic amulet. Or pray you find stealthy astral mages, or empower some scouts, just a few cut cords will probably put a bad taste in their mouth. And recruit lots and lots of cheap astral mages if you can, so you can try to keep your important ones alive.