Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

Is it just me or are the cave knights of Agartha LA a bit too easy to get? I had a game against 2 standard AIs and I only lost 3 - 4 cave knights in the whole game. If you have to summon it (without a rider) you have to pay 8 earth gems. Therefore the cave knight is worth pretty much 10 earth gems. And actually I find it a lot harder to get 10 earth gems than to get 100 gold + 35 resources. I had a game before with Ulm LA and the Black templars with 80 gold + 68 resources seem to be a joke compared to them. Even with blessings, the stats of a cave drake are classes beyond a black templar.
It also seems to significantly reduce the need for normal summons. In the later game stages it was no problem to build 8 - 9 cave drakes a turn while a monster with better stats than a cave drake still was very hard to get, usually not more than 1 - 2. The drake spam seems a bit too effective to me. Does the AI just don't know the right counter or is there no easy counter. Why should I buy the other troops if the drakes are so overwhelming?
Maybe I should increase the difficulty, but Ulm LA seemed a lot more difficult to play and if the drakes get a real challenge I don't know if summoning units (except commanders) is still worth it since better monster than cave drakes are very expensive.

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

On a related note (I don't think they're too powerful, just amusing), I think it's telling that the Cave Drake is one of a few units in the game (Spider Knights in Machaka could be another example) where you _want_ the initial unit to die because the 'mount' is so much superior. I find it, well, a little odd.

The easiest way to counter them is with MR negates damage/kill, like Soul Slay etc. They have an MR value of 8 (per book). Another option is AN damage (Lightning), but they do have a great deal of HP.

Anyone know if the cave drake unit has upkeep?

Finally, I see them as basicallya wall that your Necromancers can hide behind to spam spells all over the place. As you've noted, conventional troops have problems getting around them.

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

Like any high protection/high HP unit, the counter is magic and AP or AN damage. The computer rarely has the ability to get these things, but humans race for them.

Still, its a nice unit....they just can't kill things very well. Throw in high damage units, and they can just keep beating on the Drakes until they die (don't forget that as a unit fatigues out, they get a chance to be hit with half protection).

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

Don't they have a high encumberance?

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

In MP games I don't think Cave Drakes are considered very good. They certainly aren't worth 10 gems, because there's no way a cave drake is actually worth 8. The reason building them is better than most early summons is because early summons on the whole pretty much suck.

But bless troops and combat magic go through the drakes pretty easy. Bless troops because the drakes have no chance to hit/hurt them, combat magic because it can often ignore their prot.

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

They have pretty low MR so paralyze, soul slay, and enslavement work wonder on them.

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

I have won a blitz using cave knights, so they may be used but I would not call them overpowered.

Re: Cave knights a bit too powerfull?!
 

So it's mainly an AI issue?! Well, I should try a higher difficulty then. A bigger map could also help...