Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

For a very long time, I've had very special beef with MA Pythium. You see, Pythium is the closest thing to Byzantine in this game and I'm really into ancient Byzantine lore. But, MA Pythium has a lot of things that I dislike, which prevent me from really enjoying from playing with them:

1) It's really, really powerful. Way beyond the powercurve of nations I like to play.
2) I know that KO was trying to his own thing, but Hydras don't belong here. It's the second rome!
3) The absolutely random and no way explained extra gem income from capitol. It's a small thing, but from a design standpoint it just boggles me. Why pythium? Why have it as the *single* deviation from the norm? It does not help that it has been bugging me since Dom:PPP.
4) Those old mages, although really powerful, are really micro intensive and just annoying.

So what I'm going to do is to alter the basic Pythium.

How?


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/pictu...&pictureid=423

Commanders
Imperial Alchemist -> Cap only, 1F1W (110% F/E/W), +1 research, 10% chance of starting with an affliction (alchemy is dangereous).
Ambassador -> Spy, nothing else special
Varangain Captain -> Cap only, very good stats, sailing, high leadership
Theurg Artisan -> Cap only, -1 research, 10 forgebonus, 1?1H 100%F/E/W/S/A. Those with fire are glassblowers, air is singer, earth is sculptor, astral is canthor, water are painters.
Divine Emperor -> Starting commander, not recruitable/summonable. S4H3, automatic communion master.

Units
Varangian Guard -> Northern mercenaries that have become a part of normal military with time. Cap only, good stats, especially high morale, forest survival.
Pyrote -> Cap only, expensive in resources, fire AoE melee attack, negative fire resistance.
Kataprakhtoi -> Noble cavarly, good stats, but are hampered by less than optimal equipment (no plate, only light lance, use maces instead of broadswords)
Verdanriotai -> Northern mercenaries that have become a part of normal military with time. Composite bows, waste/forest survival.

New Spells
-> H1 communion slave (note that this will not work on pure H1 priests, only those who have an actual magic pick -> this piece of data is from my Holy War modding days)
-> H2 communion master
-> F2W1 "Greek Fire" combat spell, likely a fireball that leaves a small "Fire Cloud" behind.
-> Awesome H5,6,7 and 8 combat spells
-> "Theosis", Conj level 7, 40 gems, W3S4 (the caster paints an icon so masterful that it allows him to contact the celestial plane and ask for the help of an archangel.)

The Archangels;
Note that these are the archangels of Orthodox Christian tradition, so they may differ from what you know. Statwise, all of them are close to regular Archangles, expect where otherwise stated

-Gabriel "Man of the Lord" -> Divine messenger and warrior S3A3H3, stealth, high mapmove, higher combat stats, wields a mirror of green jasper* on his left hand.
-Barachiel "Blessing of the Lord" -> Leader of all Guardian Angels and holds dominance over lightning, A4F2H3, lighting attacks, can summon "angels of the host", wields a white rose on his left hand*
-Uriel "Light of the Lord" -> F4A2H3, higher combat stats, extra holy fire attacks but only one hand slot since he always wields the orb of fire*
-Jegudiel "Glorifier of the Lord" -> Patron Saint of all labour and arts. S3E2F1H3, reinvigoration, forgebonus, high leadership, lower combat stats, wields a crown on his right hand* to represent the rewards for spiritual labour.
-Raphael "Healing of the Lord" -> Patron saint of medicine and sciences. S3N3H3, healer 100, reserachbonus, recuperation, regeneration, lower combat stats, wields a jar full of medicine in his left hand*
-Selaphiel "Prayer of the Lord" -> Patron saint of praying. S4F1A1w1E1H4, very high researchbonus, attack value 0, no melee attack, greatly lowered combat stats, domsummons angels of the host, automatic communion master.

-Michael -> He will be a unique combat summon from one of the holy 5-8 spells. No magic (since he would then just spam smite or something equally lame). Extremely good combat stats, wields a very powerful holy lance and can banish people to hell (like the artefact "Hell Sword")

* In classic orthodox iconography, this angel is often painted with that item. I might give the item a "dom3" function, depending if I come up with something awesome for it.

Changes to base Pythium
-> Starting commanders to Ambassador and Divine Emperor
-> Battle Vestal no longer cap only
-> Description edits
-> Starting gem income to: 1F 1A 1W 2S
-> Arch Theurgs will be multiheroes and only slightly old age, magic changed to S3 3? H3 (F/A/W -> linked random)
-> Theurgs - not old any more, magic changed to S2 2? H2 (F/A/W - linked randoms), gold cost increase
-> Theurg Acolytes get an additional 10% F/A/W random.
-> Following units no longer available;
Hydra, Hydra Hatchling, Hydra Tamer, Scout, Emerald Lord, Lizard Catapharact, Lizard Lord, Gladiators, the Master of Games multi-hero


Angel Summon Changes (will affect Marignon too)
Contact Harbringer (OLD, level 6, S4, 25 pearls) -> NEW: level 5, A2 S3, 27 air gems
Angelic Host (OLD, level 7, S5, 50 pearls) -> NEW: level 7, F2S4, 55 fire gems)
Others left as they are. This change is so that the player might occasionally *use* these spells. In vanilla it's just better so save up your gems for Angels of Fury or Seraphs.

Of course, if you like the basic Pythium this won't likely be your mod. What I'm aiming for here, is to bring a breath of fresh air into a power nation that has been played to death. Perhaps allowing for a option for those who want the glorious "second rome" instead of just endless Hydras.

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

I like the idea of this mod, it is like a fusion of pythium and pure unadulterated AWESOME. Sweet. Being another person who is not really into power nations, and has a certain fondness for byzantium (though not quite so much as the author), I am looking forward to this.

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

I'm sorry, but I really like the Arch Theugs, and can't believe the old powerful communion priest have to go. I always thought that they were the most fitting thing for the nation. I wondered about the assassins and the hydras. I don't mind loosing the lizard cataphracts. Spies might be appropriate but obviously unnecessary. Certainly more appropriate than assassins.

Maybe its the power of the arch threurges that bothers you, rather than the flavor.

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

Sounds fantastic -- I look forward to seeing it!

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

I very much love the idea! I'm unfamiliar with Pythium, but had the same thoughts when I tried them.

Hit the nail on the head with the vikings. The Varyags of Miklagaard isn't just a good song, they were a potent force through much of their history! And the origin of the current day 'Swiss Guard.' Food for thought: in later years they hired from other tribes than the Swedes. The Rus *were* also a major factor for the Byzantines; if they hadn't of left, the Turkic cousins of the Mongols might not have conquered 'The City' so easily!

It seems that Pythium is like Byzantium mixed with Sarmatian/Scythian influences. BigDaddy may have a point... maybe a new nation, not a replacement, is warranted? Just a thought, I like your idea just fine Burnsaber.

Love the idea, and would like to offer any support or help I can!

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

When doing this mod, you should read "Röde Orm" by Frans G. Bengtson if you haven't already. It is a very nice viking story. Historically accurate and a substantial part of it also takes up the subject of vikings fighting for middle eastern powers.

No idea if you know swedish, but it is available in english as "the long ships".

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

Some spies and assassins of various effectiveness would certainly add to byzantine flavour.

Maybe some corruptor/seducer type commander - the Byzantines certainly had a knack for getting neighbours to change their allegiances on a fairly regular basis.

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

I think flamethrowers were only used in naval warfare, or maybe some siege, so having a unit for these in Dom seems a bit strange.
What about chariot racer heroes?
Having only wizard priests sounds quite thematic, though, with all the byzantine religious bickerings, many priests should be hired by Byzantine rulers.

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

Well, we are not talking about communion priests here. We are talking about communion *mages*, no one communions them to boost their holy power, but I have a plan to fix that. I have to go to work soon, so I won't go into details yet.

Byzantine had a pretty cut-throat imperial court. Assasins and spies are certainly very appropiate.

Well, obviously. I stated in the first post that I wanted to tone the nation down. Their ridicilious power combined with the ridicilious age just creates a micro hell as you keep them alive with the regen battle bug and forge dozens of shrouds.

Since I'm going to keep the infantry and most of the Theurg intact, it would be really bizarre and confusing if both the "vanilla" and "Byzantine" pythium were in the same game. Overwriting also allows me to save spell slots and avoid writing new units (which increases compactibility since I don't have to use new monster ID's). Also, less graphics work!

I'll have to see if there is a copy at my local library. Thanks for the tip!

Well, I was thinking of a Ambassodor/Diplomat style spy. It would be pretty rebundant to have more than one spy or assasin, since only the top one would be recruited (even if you chose to *not* recruit a mage, which is pretty rare).

Well, this is a fantasy game. I won't let historical accuracy be in the way of awesome. Besides it's not *that much* of stretch to assume that those cylinders would have been used in sieges and other land warfare applications.

I was thinking of a cap-only, heavily armored, high-resource cost infantry unit that can once throw a inaccurate blast of fire to a very close range and have a flaming melee attack with it.

Certainly a nice idea. I was thinking of replacing gladiators with chariots, but I'll see if it's necessary.

I'll have to warn everyone though that this nation won't be that historically accurate. More like a fanboyish wet dream of what the Ancient Byzantine was like. (It is pretty certain that my version will likely present as very goody-goody although the reality was vastly different).

Re: Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread
 

digression: kennydicke, varyags have *nothing* to do with the swiss guard, who derived from the swiss pikemen mercenaries. Technically, the swiss guard is the last swiss mercenary troop in existence, although they are hardly mercenary now.

back on Topic: Burnsaber, this sounds really cool. I definitely support toning Pythium down, and I like the idea of flamethrowers =). I'd give them more than 1 shot so they have tactical uses rather than being a curiosity. Maybe make the sprite have 2 men (1 carrying the fuel supply!) and make the unit size 3. 3-5 shots seems reasonable. It would be sort of like recruitable fire drakes for range, but without the beefy hps.