British and Soviet Soft Skinned Vehicles
 

I’ve been looking at the game’s unarmoured transport. I’d like to use this thread to suggest some improvements and corrections.

I’ll also post some icons I made, that anyone can use or edit if they wish.


The following rough guide may be helpful to some people. There’s exceptions, but as a general rule:

Utility Vehicles
Wgt. class: 5, 8cwt
Size: 2
Carry: 6 men (in addition to crew)

Light Trucks
Wgt. class: 15cwt (3/4 ton)
Size: 2 or 3
Carry: 12 men

Medium Trucks
Wgt. class: 30cwt (1.5 ton)
Size: 3
Carry: 12/18 men

Heavy Trucks
Wgt. class: 3 ton +
Size: 4
Carry: 24/30 men

Ammo Trucks
Size: 3

Barge Carriers
Size: 6


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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

British Utility Vehicles

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8...snipetilly.gif

Austin 7 - unit 286 & 287

1. Could change name to Humber Snipe.

The Austin 7 was rare and so small it’d barely fit two large blokes. By WW2 few were still in the British army, but there were some in the BEF and in ‘Dad's Army’.

The Humber Snipe was much larger, originating in 1930 but with a more powerful 4086cc engine by 1938, giving it a road speed of 127 Kmh (technically the ‘Super Snipe’). About 6,500 were produced by 1940, and it was widely used in the British Army, most famously by Monty in North Africa and Europe:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/600/monty20109.jpg

Humber Snipe source
General info and speed:

The Super Snipe, introduced in October 1938, less than a year before the Second World War war was declared, was a design combining the older Humber Snipe model with a 4.1 litre inline six-cylinder engine taken from the larger Humber Pullman, its predecessor. This engine gave it an excellent performance, with a top speed of 79 mph (127 km/h) - fast for its day. With the outbreak of the Second World War, the Super Snipe was an obvious choice as a staff car, and was produced suitably camouflaged. The chassis also became a basis for the Humber Light Reconnaissance Car Marks I and II. This model represents 'Old Faithful', as used by Field Marshal Montgomery in his campaigns in North Africa and in Northwest Europe. The original car still exists and is currently on display at Duxford Airfield.
http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/

Humber Utility - unit 285

1. Could make the name a bit more descriptive:

Humber Box Heavy Utility
Humber Heavy Utility
Humber Box 4x4 or FWD

The Humber ‘Box’ Heavy Utility was well known and widely used as the only British 4x4 utility vehicle; it was a forerunner of the modern SUV.

2. The current speed of 18 could be adjusted, as this vehicle had a road speed of 101Kmh. It had the same powerful engine as the Snipe.

Photo of the Box
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8...oxandtilly.gif

Humber Box source
Speed:

The most important Humber apart from the Snipe was the 4x4 heavy utility. This was a remarkable vehicle, being the only four-wheel-drive machine of its size made in Britain at the time. It was intended for the same type of work as the Ford WOT2 being able to transport staff officers at high speed (maximum 63 mph) over good roads and at the same time to keep going were roads non-existent, on sand or deep mud.
Page 12, G.N. Georgano, World War Two Military Vehicles Transport and Halftracks, Osprey Automotive 1994


Austin ‘Tilly’ Light Utility
(aka. Austin 10HP G/YG Light Utility)

If you wanted to add a vehicle to this class, you might consider the ‘Tilly’, which was found in all sorts of units across the British Army. About 30,000 were produced during WW2.

Road speed: 89 Kmh
Drive: 4x2
Date: Apr 1940
Lbm: 30257
Size: 156x63 inches

Tilly top view
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/5...lytopview4.jpg

Tilly icon: (my soft vehicle icons are 5 inches to a pixel)
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6...tintillyx2.png

Austin Tilly sources
General info:
http://austin.tillyregister.com/about.html

Speed 89 Kmh:
Page 3 and 9 of the original Driver’s Handbook says 55 Mph (89 Kmh) is maximum permissible road speed in top gear.
Handbook: http://austin.tillyregister.com/down...rshandbook.pdf

Available from April 1940:
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/austin10hp.htm



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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

British Light Trucks 15cwt

I’ve read that in WW2 the British called 15cwt trucks “trucks” but 30cwt or heavier was a lorry!

Morris Quad GT...unit 104
Morris 15cwt...... unit 129
Morris 15cwt...... unit 288

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/6...cwttrucks2.gif

Morris Quad GT - unit 104

1.Could adjust the name to ‘Morris C8 Quad FAT’.

2.Could review the speed of 15 as I’ve seen two sources (one is only Wikipedia) that say the C8 had a speed of 80Kmh, and one source that says just under 80Kmh.

Morris C8 Quad FAT sources
Speed 80Kmh:
http://www.tanksinworldwar2.com/uk-morris-c8-quad.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_C8
Just under 80Kmh:
http://www.flyingmule.com/products/HM-HG4003


Morris 15cwt - unit 129

1. Could rename to ‘Morris CS8 15cwt’.
The CS8 was the second most produced British 15cwt truck (21,318 made).

2. Change from 4WD to 2WD.
The only British 4WD 15cwt trucks (AFAIK) were the Morris C8 Quad FAT (unit 104 above) and the Guy Quad-Ant.

3. Change avail date to 1934

4. Could use new icon.
Morris CS8 size: 189x73 inches

Morris CS8 15cwt source
Drive 4x2:
Available date 1934:
Size 189x73 inches:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedki...5cwt-truck.asp

Morris 15cwt - unit 288

1. Rename to Bedford MWD 15cwt
The Bedford MWD was the most famous and prolific 15cwt truck (65,000 produced).

2. Change from 4WD to 2WD.

3. Could change avail date from Jan 1930 to May 1939, unless causes OOB problems.

4. Change crew of 1 to crew 2.
All other trucks (accept some utility vehicles) have at least a crew of 2.

5. Could use new icon.
Morris MWD size: 172x78 inches

Bedford MWD and Morris CS8 image (my soft vehicle icons are 5 inches to a pixel)
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3...dmorriscs8.gif


Bedford MWD 15cwt sources
Drive 4x2:
Size 172x78 inches:
http://ww2db.com/vehicle_spec.php?q=R299

Available date May 1939:
The initial order for the deliverance of the MW to the British Forces was agreed on 2nd May 1939
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/bdmwc.htm




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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

1.5 Ton (30cwt) Medium Lorries

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3...dwot830cwt.png

1&1/2 Ton Truck... unit 517
Austin 30cwt..... unit 054

1&1/2 Ton Truck - unit 517

1. Could change name to ‘Fordson WOT8 30cwt Lorry’ or ‘Fordson WOT8 4x4 30cwt’.

The WOT8 was the only British 30cwt 4x4 produced during the war. Just over 2,500 were made, but I believe about 800 were shipped to Russia.
I’ve read that the WOT8 was first produced in 1941, but I don’t know what month, so it may be best to leave the available date as it is (currently Jan 1942).

2. Upgrade size from 2 to 3
Most medium trucks are size 3, and the WOT8 is 200 x 90 inches, probably larger than the average size 3.

3. Upgrade the carry from 112 to 118.
Most 30cwt medium trucks carry 118, and the WOT8 cargo space appears larger than most medium trucks.

4. Could downgrade the speed (currently 20) as the only reference I found for the WOT8 speed was 60 Kmh.

5. Could give this unit its own icon (200 x 90 inches).
This unit icon is currently shared with German units:
453 Kfz 69
155 SdKfz 69 Protze
997 Horch Kfz 70

Fordson WOT8 30cwt sources:
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gfordgb.htm
http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/mapa-witryny.html


Austin 30cwt - unit 054

1. Could change name to ‘Austin K30 30cwt’, or ‘Austin K30 Medium Lorry’
About 14,000 K30s were manufactured.

2. Could make unavailable after Dec 1941 as those K30 lorries that weren’t lost at Dunkirk were phased out during 1941, many shipped to Russia.

3. Could give this unit its own icon. (Austin K30 216x86 inches, 43x17 pixels)
The current icon is too large at 53x18 pixels and is shared with USA units:
Unit 38 (2&1/2 Ton Truck)
Unit 230 (Ammo Truck).

Before and after icon (my soft vehicle icons are 5 inches to a pixel)
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/717...cwticonsx2.png


Austin K30 sources:
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/JClick.php?UID=8758
http://www.austincars.wz.cz/katalog/1940k30.htm




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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

British Heavy Lorries (3 ton)

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/5484/3tonlorries.png

Bedford unit 294 4x4 (carry 124)(speed 12) Gun Tractor
Bedford unit 055 4x2 (carry 133)(speed 15) General Service

Bedford - unit 294

1. Change name to ‘AEC Matador GT’ which was the main British medium Gun Tractor.
About 9,000 Matador 4x4 were produced between 1938 and 1945

2. The Matador was delivered Nov 1939 (unit 294 is currently available from Feb 1940)

3. The speed may require adjusting, as the Matador had a road speed of 58 Kmh.

4. Change icon

AEC Matador sources:
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/aecmatador.htm
http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/...atador0853.htm
page 97, Chris Bishop, The Encyclopedia of Weapons of WWII, Metrobooks 2002


Bedford - unit 055
1. Change name to the more descriptive ‘Bedford QLT’ or ‘Bedford QLT 3 ton’
The Bedford QLT (T for trooper, but nicknamed ‘drooper’) was the well known QLD workhorse (52,250 made) but with an extended tail, and was the only Bedford that could carry 30 men. Manufactured: 3,373 QLTs

2. Change from 4x2 to 4x4.
The QLT was FWD with a speed of 61 Kmh.

3. Change icon, or create new icon.

Bedford QLT sources:
http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/mapa-witryny.html
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/bdqlt.htm

Bedford OYD

If you wanted to add a 2WD 3 ton truck, the Bedford OYD may be a good choice:

Bedford OYD (General service with regular cargo body)
Carry: 24
Drive: 4x2
Speed 73 Kmh,
Made: 72,385

Bedford OYD sources:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedki...d-gs-3-ton.asp
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/bdoy.htm

Before and after Icons (my soft vehicle icons are 5 inches to a pixel)
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5...ords3tonx2.png



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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

British Ammo Lorry and Barge Carrier


Ammo Lorry unit 230

1. Could give this unit its own icon, changing the icon to a more realistic size and type.

The Ammo lorry is size 3 but the icon looks more like a size 5 American ‘big rig’ truck.
Could change the icon to a Bedford OXD which would be size 3 (195x86 inches), 4x2 drivetrain and even the OXD speed is about right at 72 Kmh. So the only thing you’d change is the icon.

Bedford OXD source
http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/21805 (Source: Encyclopedia of historical military vehicles - Ivo Prague)


Barge carrier unit 248

1. Could change the icon to a large British lorry, like the Leyland Hippo. (Size: 327x97 inches)
The Hippo was first made in 1934 but a Mk.II military oriented version came out in 1943.

2. Could change the speed, as the Hippo had a speed of 65 Kmh

3. Could change the drive, as the Hippo was 6x4

Leyland Hippo source:
http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/mapa-witryny.html

Ammo Lorry and Barge carrier icons (my soft vehicle icons are 5 inches to a pixel)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2921/ammolorryx2.png


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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

British BMP Icons

I’ll attach the British icons I’ve done to this post.
Anyone can use or edit these if they wish.

There’s a couple of icons that are not mentioned in this thread. I’ve slightly modded the Jeep and the Austin 7 /Humber Snipe icon.


Humber Snipe
Jeep
Humber Box Heavy Utility
Austin 10 Light Utility
Morris C8 Quad FAT
Bedford MWD 15cwt
Bedford MWD 15 cwt Ammo Truck
Morris CS8 15cwt
Guy Quad-Ant 15cwt
Fordson WOT8 30cwt
Austin K30 30cwt
AEC Matador GT
Bedford QLT 3 ton
Bedford QLD 3 ton
Bedford OYD 3 ton
Bedford OXD 30cwt Ammo Lorry
Leyland Hippo 10 ton
Leyland Hippo 10 ton Flatbed

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6...itishicons.png



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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

Soviet Utility Vehicles

Jeep - unit 46

The Jeep available date could be moved forward from Jul 43 to early 42, as I found a couple of sources that say they started to receive it in fall/late 1941 and early 42.
The Amphib Jeep (unit 107) is currently available to the Soviets on Jan 43, earlier than the normal Jeep.

Soviet Jeep sources:
Late 41:
http://www.o5m6.de/bantam.html
Early 42:
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/w/lendleas.jpg
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/willysmb.htm

Additional Utility Vehicles

The Soviets don’t seem to have a light utility vehicle until the Jeeps become available in 1943.

Two possible additions:

GAZ M1 ‘Emka’ Staff Car
Available: 1935
Produced: 62,888
Drive: 4x2
Size: 182 x 70 inches
Speed: 100 Kmh

This car was almost the only commander car during most difficult first year of the war. Later it was substituted by Willys MA and MB.
This car is very famous and prevailing car of war times, it is mentioned even in this period songs. People called it "Emka" for letter M in its name.

GAZ M1 sources
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gazm1.htm
http://www.o5m6.de/gaz_m1.html

Could use the Austin 7 staff car icon for the M1
Top down picture of M1
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7837/gazm1l.jpg


GAZ 67 Utility
Available: Sep 1943
Produced: 4,851 (during WW2)
Drive: 4x4
Size: 132 x 66 inches
Speed: 90 Kmh

The GAZ 67 was the Soviet Jeep. Of course they had the US Jeep by this time, in fact it was largely a copy of the Jeep, but it would give this OOB more of a Soviet flavour.

GAZ 67 sources
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gaz67.htm
Top down picture:
http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/...AZ/GAZ-67B.htm

Photo of GAZ67
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9951/gaz67small.jpg




Cross

Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

Soviet Light Trucks 3/4 ton (15 cwt)

The only light truck in the Soviet OOB is an AOP vehicle:

AOP Light Truck – unit 134
Crew: 4
Carry: 106
Speed: 12
Size: 3
Avail: 1930

1. Perhaps it should be size 2?

Additional Light Trucks

If you wanted to give the Soviet OOB a light truck, there's the GAZ-4 and GAZ-M415 pickup trucks (3/4 ton). The earlier GAZ-4 is smaller, a bit more utility than light truck, and may not carry as many men.
The GAZ-M415 may be the better choice.

GAZ-4 Pickup Truck 3/4 ton
Available: 1933
Speed: 90 Kmh
Drive: 4x2
Produced: 10,648
Size: 161 x 67 inches (size 2)

GAZ-4 source:
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gaz4.htm

GAZ-M415 Pickup Truck 3/4 ton
Available: 1939
Speed: 90 Kmh
Drive: 4x2
Produced: 8,000+
Size: 180 x 70 inches (size 2)

The GAZ-M415 was the pickup truck version of the ‘Emka’ Staff car.

Image of GAZ-M415
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8206/gazm415.jpg

GAZ-M415 sources:
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gaz415.htm
http://www.bonanza.com/booths/McSim/...up_USSR_Ford_B

It may also make sense to adjust the AOP Light Truck (unit 134) to the same icon, speed, and size as the GAZ pickup truck.

Before and after Icon (my soft vehcile icons are 1 pixel per 5 inches)
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9...ghttruckx2.png

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Re: Soft Vehicles: Utility, Light, Medium and Heavy Trucks
 

Soviet Medium GAZ Trucks

Pic of three GAZ
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/757/gazmedtrucks.jpg

The truck body was the same for each of the three main versions, but the drivetrain was different:

GAZ-AA…... drive: 4x2
GAZ-AAA… drive: 6x4
GAZ-60……. drive: halftrack

The most common GAZ medium trucks were called GAZ-AA and GAZ-AAA, but the name has nothing to do with ‘anti-aircraft’ so would cause confusion.

Apart from unit class, unit 44 and 465 are identical in the game.

GAZ Truck...unit 44...Med Truck......carry 118...size 3...4x2
GAZ Truck...unit 465...Med Truck......carry 118...size 3...4x2
GAZ 60......unit 829...Med Half-track...carry 118...size 3...H-track

1. Could convert unit 465 into a 4WD (6x4) version (37,000 built) but the 6x4 wasn’t available until 1935, and both trucks are currently available from 1930 in the game; but this is probably not important. The Halftrack is available in 1939 which is correct.

2. Could rename them to:

GAZ Medium Truck…..…unit 44
GAZ Medium Truck 6x4…unit 465
GAZ-60 Med Halftrack..…unit 829

3. Unit 465 may be wrong unit class 23 (APC wheel)
4. Could create new icon/icons (all are 210x80 inches, but the tracks of GAZ-60 may make it a bit wider)

GAZ Medium Truck sources:
http://www.o5m6.de/gaz_aa.html
http://www.o5m6.de/gaz_aaa_1937.html
http://www.o5m6.de/gaz_60.html
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gazaa.htm
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gazaaa.htm
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gaz60.htm

GAZ Top down picture
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8655/gaz.gif

GAZ Icons (My icons are 1 pixel per 5 inches)
Could use open truck for 4x2
and covered truck for 6x4
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3...diumtrucks.png



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