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Imp June 7th, 2012 12:46 AM

AI artillery use
 
Just a thought
Realise the AI sometimes sets artillery as reinforcements so they are available later in the game & it occurred to me this might be further refined for attack assault battles possibly when its defending to.
If it sets some as reinforcements to enter on turn 2-3 it will not waste them firing blind as it should have an idea of some enemy positions by then. Mainly applies to big stuff or CM as even if the pre plotted stuff hits there can be a few turns gap till in range. This is more important on maps 100 plus wide perhaps it could base it on map width.
Really good possibly would be to combine with leting the scouts go while rest delay a few turns as sometimes happens.
I only say this because the AIs arty routines are generally very good but it tends to use its expensive CM stuff rockets etc before it sees any targets.
The other options if easier is to make the AI use them like mine dropping artillery in those type of battles (i.e. not available at outset) or just not call the CM for a few turns so it could still fire smoke & HE if available.
That said I think this would work in WWII to reserving a few big guns as covering ground is slower.
The other possible benefit is it could concentrate fire as the new batteries are targeted at the few available targets.
My gut feeling is this could spring a few nasty surprises.

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 7th, 2012 02:40 AM

Re: AI artillery use
 
What I've noticed is in preliminary bombardment missions it's doing really what the human player is doing and targeting where it thinks you should be. But with that is a tendency for most of the missions to be around the area of the victory hexes your defending, where I'll pre plan around likely lines of departure, observation/cover fire terrain features and rear area reserve/AA areas. Also it tends to do the same near the end of the game as well when the battle isn't going it's way. Also it'll fire missions behind your troops (Thinking it's supporting it's advancing troops.) if you've held the line, it will adjust the fire missions, but at times it seems to take longer then me doing the same. As a campaign progresses it seems to start to figure out (Or it's just getting lucky.) how I'm deploying my troops at the start of the game and I'll take casualties at maybe around 2-4 of my jumping off point(s). Not knowing the AIs comms, observation or experience level issues concerning arty but of course taking these into account as it would affect the human player as well, if anything...

1. Allow AI in preliminary bombardment phase more target options (Based on mission.), at least 85% - 90% of these missions now seem devoted to victory hex areas regardless of the mission.

2. Faster adjustment fires.

3. "Fix" this habit of the AI wasting fire missions to the enemy's rear areas. If the AI is losing it should use those missions on the advancing enemy to cover the retreat of it's units or not at all if trying to save arty units from CB fire missions. I've destroyed AI batteries because these rear area missions in the past towards the end of a battle AI losing battle.

4. More random CB missions should be added. I rely on it myself at times and it's pretty much doctrine in the real world as it's the "cover fire" for otherwise directed arty missions. On the very rare occasions where the AI does this it can be damaging.

I don't know how truly intuitive the AI is when concerning arty or what more can be done to improve it but these are the biggest issues I've seen with it. I do know it uses more dedicated FO arty units than I do as I use zero and makes me wonder about 1-3above because of that. But again I'm just an equipment guy not a software one. The AI is my opponent, so the tougher the better.

Regards,
Pat

Imp June 7th, 2012 05:44 PM

Re: AI artillery use
 
I agree with you pre bombardement should still be there & that it tends to target victory hexes to much which is why I suggested only reserve some units.
What I am trying to do is stop it using units that have little ammo for that purpose (CM Rockets) & reserve them for when it at least has suspected targets.

On CB its not dead straight forward as experience seems to play a big part. If you play mainly campaigns (so experince increases) or as NATO side exp 80 vs pact exp 70 you will get more CB fire missions as a general rule I feel.
That said perhaps the AI reserving more for CB is a good idea keeping best experience longest ranged tube for that at times if it doesnt already is a good idea.
I just started playiing the AI again 4 games in & in one it used MLRS for CB, ouch it was a fair way into the battle before I would let what was left of my arty do more than 2 firemissions in a row after that.
Off topic dang those current timeframe USMC helos armed with APKWS are seriously nasty bits of work they can take out a mech company all on there lonesome.

FASTBOAT TOUGH June 8th, 2012 02:54 AM

Re: AI artillery use
 
The one lesson I learned early on partly from the AI is to change it up a little with the use of on map arty. The AI from my experience to a larger extent prefers to use regular field howitzers vs. SPA types. Also I've noticed VERY rarely does it provide transport for them and never have I seen it have ammo support for it's on map arty either, this might have something to do with the fact the AI is always armor and infantry heavy. Remember I might be seeing these issues because ALL my campaigns run 21 to 23 battles at least. MRLS does in the game and real world make a very effective CB option. I understand the issue over the AI using limited ammo usage arty early on. The counter to this problem is again the real life solution of on map arty having organic ammo resupply as in real life. PIM (PALIDAN now.), CAESAR, TORNADO, G6, DONAR, ARCHER etc. all have dedicated ammo resupply units and come that way from the factory. They work together as a team. If you want it you should pay for it in that manner as a package deal. But again are their software issues within the game that would prohibit such an arrangement, I don't know. I will personally have organic ammo units for all my SPA and add transport also for Towed arty. I believe in "Shoot n Scoot" and giving myself the ability to maintain fully any HE or CM missions to support meeting the objective. So EJ as you get game one sometime in this lifetime, maybe, there's a little insight for you. As the player be aware the AI is EXCELLENT in CB missions vs enemy on map arty. I spend more time in placement of SPA/SPAA etc. then in most any other units as the AI seems and will give priority to destroying them. Same holds true for ATGW crew served units and if you think about it's probably what you'd do as well. This again is one of the best attributes the AI possesses when it comes to arty. It will hammer you and when you think you've made it through and you start moving or shooting, it'll start with the mortars (AI loves mortars!) and hammer you again. This happened to 3 of my TOW teams that were causing havoc on the Chinese, they got hammered by 60mm, 81mm, 85mm MRLS, 120mm and 130mm (I didn't know it had then about 8 turns in.) my units were suppressed, repressed and dare I say depressed. The AI moved on to other missions, once I started to move them an FO or something called in the mortars and the process started over again to a lesser degree. Surprisingly they survived but except for one team they never really got back into the game again due to surpression. The AI isn't perfect and even a couple of the fixes mentioned would make it more competative in this area, but in the situations as just decribed it's excellent.

Regards,
Pat


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