OT: Our Economy (US)
 

Prepare yourself for I have stepped upon the soapbox and now speak my mind:

Right now the US is in trawled in the grips of recession, and despite everything that has happened over the Last year, some in our government believe that all of the layoff’s, bankruptcies, depressed stocks, and growing concern about our economic futures is nothing more than a rumor.

George Bush is trying, from what I have seen, to keep our economy going by doing what he can to reverse what Clinton had done. Clinton embraced more government, more taxes, and more regulation while Bush seems to be interested in lower taxes, lower government involvement (say airline security) and less regulation.

It has been proven that economic growth is obtained by free market, and that having a free market, without the chains of government regulation, promotes economic growth and expansion.

Right now, the US unemployment rate is at a national high, and some economist, mainly blind ones, say that unemployment is coming down. No, unemployment numbers are NOT coming down; they simply reflect the amount of people whose benefits have run out. Naturally since people are no longer receiving benefits, the amount of people collecting unemployment has naturally lowered. Unemployment starts are down they say, well yes and no. Most states do not monitor unemployment starts, only the number of people who collect weekly benefits. So again, a lie, or twisting of the facts.

In Washington State, Gary Locke the Governor, faced with economic disaster, does something that defies belief, he increases taxes on everything from sales tax to gasoline tax. In the Last week, gas prices have jumped by $.30 cents a gallon. Instead of fueling the economy, our Democratic Governor has stalled our economy by choking us with more taxes.

I recently have become aware that the show West Wing has become the Democratic response to a Republican President. Whatever George Bush does, they scrutinize and do the opposite on West Wing all the while hollering about morals and being in the publics best intrest. These are the same people who now criticize the military for their humane treatment of Terrorist when they kept their liberal left wing views silent during those same terrorist mistreatment of the people, namely women, of respective countries. Go figure. Now these Left Wing ultra democrats want people to believe that this economic down turn is the fault of George Bush when it is them who are increasing the taxes while George Bush is trying to lower them. A perfect example of role reversing.


It was Reganomics that brought us out of a horrible recession back in the early 80's, and it was Clintonomics that put has put us back into one now. I have faith that Bush and his economic advisers know what they are doing, and that they will lead our economy out of this post Clinton depression back into the light of economic prosperity so long as people are not fooled by what the Democrats are saying and doing.

Don't get sucked into something based upon propaganda, look into it, research it, and keep an open mind. I think therefore I am. The line against the wholesale slaughter of the innocence must be drawn here and now. This point, no further. They (Those who wish to be the power) have plunder our savings, cost us our jobs, and now want to suck us dry of every Last cent we have. They take our homes, our money, and our dignity and tell us that it’s not them doing it, but some one else. Democrats have lead this country into 3 recessions, and Republicans have lead us out of each of them.

Stop Taxing us into bankruptcy, and start protecting our rights to be free from sale.

[ 07 April 2002: Message edited by: Atrocities ]</p>

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

Trying to blame one side or the other for the current state of affairs is ridiculous. For where ever there are Democrats there are Republicans, and where ever there are Republicans there are Democrats. Both wasting so much breath blaming the other side for mistakes that they fail to do anything about it. And where ever there is money you will find both sides. I'm not sure about the whole free market issue, it seems that our economy is controled by the sale and use of military hardware more than anything else, a fact that I find completely revolting. And I don't see how you can say Bush is for lower government involvement (you site airline security) When first he puts National Guard troops in airports and then gives billions in aid to the airline companies so they don't fold... That doesn't sound very free-marketish. In a free market the companies that don't cut it go out of business, they don't get handouts. But I'm sure the Democrats would have done the exact same thing. And yes Democrats have sat on their asses while human rights are violated around the world... But so have the Republicans... Let's not forget the Chinese invasion of Tibet where buddhists monks were slaughtered and are still prevented from exercising their religion. Or how about Saudia Arabia, an ally during many presidencies of both parties, a repressive monarchy that we have helped hold up with our military sales and support, women are almost as repressed in many areas of the world as they are in this one country that we supposedly liberated (Afghanistan). Both the Democrats and the Republicans have ignored those issues that they feel can be ignored and when they can't they blame the other side. Both have supported Indonesia's 30 year occupation and ethnic cleansing of East Timor (look it up you won't find it on the nightly news). We have sold weapons to their army which they now use to kill civilians. Clinton, Bush I, Bush II, They're all the same... Grasping greedy politicians who can't wait to make more money and ruin the rest of us in the process... So instead of blaming the 'Democrats' for all the worlds ill's why don't you look at each person as an individual... A Republican can be just as greedy and heartless as a Democrat can... and they are often some of the worst...
We are all responsible for the evils our government does... This is supposed to be a democracy you know... We elect these men and women... We should all feel guilty when our leaders decide to bomb someone for not agreeing... If we do then we can get off our asses and change the system so we can all one day feel pride at the masterpiece we have created... But it won't happen as long as the Bushes and Clintons of the world hold power.

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

Kinboat: Your whole spiel is summed up in a single sentence.

There's only one party, the incumbent party!

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

I agree with Kinboat. Both sides are in the same bag and don't forget if it is necessary for them to kill us... they will !!! We do the same in SE IV... but it is a game not life.

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

George Washington warned, in his farewell address, not to have political parties. A pity we didn't listen.

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

Ultimately, I blame the whole "rich get richer, poor get poorer" effect for our current economy; when all is said and done, there will be 10 rich people in the world that give hand-me-outs to the other 6 billion.

Ok, a little stretched there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
But all the same, "A house divided against itself can not stand", and the U.S. is definately a house divided politically. Less government and tax is good, but corporate despots aren't, and in a free-market, the corporate big-wigs end up replacing the government ones.

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

Yes it is a pity we didn't listen to some of our earlier leaders... One thing I forgot in my ramblings was this... The plight of the Afghani people wasn't on anyone's mind until it became politically beneficial to point it out (the terrorists we wanted were hiding in their country)... If we really cared about human rights violations there we would have done something many years ago. And yes a lot of my longer speils can be summed up in one sentence, that's an excellent one Baron Munchausen.

Damn didn't realize I started sounding so preachy there... That happens a lot with me. Sorry for the OT... There's probably a better place for this stuff.

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: Kinboat ]</p>

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kinboat:
The plight of the Afghani people wasn't on anyone's mind until it became politically beneficial to point it out (the terrorists we wanted were hiding in their country)... If we really cared about human rights violations there we would have done something many years ago.<hr></blockquote>
This isn't really an acurate statement. The deplorable conditions the Afgans lived under was well known by anyone who cared to get deeper into it than the nightly news. There have been many articles in magazines and newspapers over the Last few years talking about everything from the lack of basic human right for women to the destruction of priceless archeological atifacts that didn't fit into the Taleban's narrow world view.

The question is what could we as a country have done? Even after the blatent attacks on US soil on 9/11 there were many loud voices in other countries that were arguing we had no right to topple the "legitamate goverment" in Afganistan.

Imagine the screams of protest had we taken a more active role prior to those events.

Geoschmo

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]</p>

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

The sad state of affairs is that the USA is tryintg to be the policeman of the world, we are very concernd with building colitions, why? We are the remaning super-power. If we pulled out of the past hotspots, ie. Japan, South korea, and Germany. Beyond a bit of oil, why should we care. We have more reserves than the middleast. I am one for closing the borders and letting the rest fight it out, Beyond the Americas,Europe, and the Pacific rim. there would be no technology!

Re: OT: Our Economy (US)
 

Political parties are all about economic policies. When you say that blaming one is ridicules, you fail to understand that blaming one is exactly correct in this instant. If you do not understand economics, then you do not understand the argument. There are two types of Americans, those who earn intrest, and those who pay it. 90% of Americans pay interest, and it is that 90% who also pay 99% of all taxes. The rich are protected and they will always be. That has been the nature of our unequal economy since its inception.

For the 90's, many Americans earned a lot of extra money, stocks, over time, better paying jobs, and Clintonomics (Clinton’s Economic Plan) took 27% over your standard tax rate. He paid down the deficit among other things. However, Americans were paying more taxes instead of saying money. Now, we are in a recession, and most Americans had no savings to fall back upon when the song stopped.

I did, but many of the people I worked with did not. In the Last 9 months the only people who have profited from this economy of the kind of people who bottom feed. You know them, the investment bankers. The people who buy your home at public auction and then bill you for the balance while selling your dreams at an incredibly inflated profit.

Economics has made and broke many countries, USSR for one. Back in 94 Clinton passed laws that seriously limited several sectors of the Free Market. We are now feeling the strangle hold of those laws.

The major difference about these two political parties is simply a difference of economic views.

One method of economic stimulus my work, while the other may work better or worse. Worse is where we are now. Where do you want to be in 6 months from now? Home at your desk playing SEIV, or living in an over inflated costly apartment eating TopperOnmin trying to play SEIV pbw on dial up?

Look what happened in the past, and see what worked and what did not. Higher taxes, wage fixes, and price fixing have always caused inflation and poor economic times. While lower taxes, free market, and no economic restrictions, say past those to prevent meltdown, have always brought about good economic times.

In the 90's, free market was attacked, AT&T, Microsoft, Health care, Tabacco, firearms, auto makers, forestry, etc. Sure some of these, indeed most, profited by stepping on the small guy, but that is how free market works. Its is not a "government kept fair" system. That line of linking is called socialism. Unfair business practices can be addressed and stamped out in court, or buy consumer protection laws. But to have the Government come in and take to trial nearly every business in the US during the 90's for liability issues was killing our economy.

Law suites and legal games choked free Market, and now we, the people who pay interest, are really paying for it. The law suites were not about consumer needs, or fair business, but about sucking money out of the free market into the pockets of trial lawyers. Trial lawyers who supported Clinton and his methods. Make the rich guys pay us money. Think about it, did any of the law suites do anything for you? Did you get any money from the Tabacco settlement? No you did not, but do you know who did? Yes, the trial lawyers. They made billions. They did that at our expense, and at the expense of our economy. Clinton provided the atmosphere for them to do it, and he allowed it too happen.

Bush’s economic plans may scare a few, but only those who believe Kainism is the way too go.

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: Atrocities ]</p>