Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

Well, I just sent an offer for a treaty of subjugation to a very weak empire called the "Bobroba States" and when I looked at the Empires menu, it was noted that my empire was under subjugation to them. When I checked "Empire Status" just to confirm, it was also listed, that we were paying them tariffs. This goes against the statement that in a subjugation treaty the weaker empire is subjugated.

The "Bobroba States" consist of merely one planet in one system. Their only vessel appears to be a single dreadnaught. My empire has three systems with fifteen well-developed colonies. My fleet consists of two dreadnaughts and more than two hundred battleships and a token number of battle cruisers. Is this a known bug or could this merely be a fluke?

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

Well, it is supposed to be strictly based off of score and nothing else. I haven't had them too often, and never managed to get the AI to agree to one. Form your description it definetly sounds as if something isn't quite right. Barbora states is a neutral right? So they shouldn't have any planets in any other systems you don't know about.

I guess just to be sure I would open their turn up and check their score. If your score is higher and yet they are subjugating you there is definetly someting wrong. Whether it's a glitch or a consistant bug, not sure. Either way I'd send it to MM if I were you.

Geoschmo

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

BING! Lightbulb moment!

Size of empires and score has absolutly no corelation to who is the dominant empire in subjugation or protectorate treaties!!

The only thing that matters is who requested the treaty. The empire requesting the treaty becomes the dominant party in the agreement, the empire accpeting the treaty is the submissive party in the agreement.

This is a total suprise to me. But I checked it in 1.49 and it's the case there as well. I was under the mistaken impression that whichever side requests the subjugation or protectorate wa irrelevant and the relative scores determined who paid the tariffs to whom. I got that impression from reading this in the manual:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think the key here is "The larger empire usually(my emphasis) controls the smaller one and limits its interactions with the rest of the universe." If a smaller empire has the hutzpah to suggest a subjugation to a larger empire, as is apparently the case for Sandstig, then they will receive the tariffs if the treaty is accepted.

Extrodinary. I had no idea. Am I the only one (Besides Sandstig of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) Suprised by this?

Geoschmo

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

My score is almost 5 million while the Barbora States are at less than 1/4 of 1,250,000. I'm basing this off of the graph in comparisons.

I sent a treaty of subjugation to the Primean Federation (my empire) when I hopped into the controls of the Barbora State and the results came out the same. It really does seem to be a bug.

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

Sorry, posted before I saw your Last post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Anyway, it appears that it's either Malfador made it so that you could never subjugate neutral empires or this really is a bug. I tried sending a treaty from either side, and both ended up with the Primean Federation (the galaxy's dominant empire in terms of ships, resources and score) being subjugated to the Bobroba States.

[ October 14, 2002, 15:01: Message edited by: Sandstig ]

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

No, I don't agree, or I am not seeing the same thing you are. What I am seeing is whoever offers the treaty ends up in the superior position in the treaty. And it has nothing to do with being a neutral or not.

If you aren't seeing the same thing I don't know what the difference is. I confirmed it in 1.78 and 1.49.

Geoschmo

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

Same thing with Protectorate also BTW.

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

It must have been a bug. I counter-offered on their proposal for a Trade and Research Alliance with a Subjugation Treaty, they accepted, and now they're paying me tariffs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

Does the AI ever accept to subjugation or protectorate? i have beaten a computer controlled species to their Last 2 or 3 planets, with no fleet at all, and they still refuse. i control a sizeable portion of the map, command several large fleets and have ships orbiting their colonies waiting to take out the whole colony. what does it take for them to give in? or is it just that the AI can't accept?

Re: Subjugation not working correctly in v1.78?
 

I am playing a solo game against computer AI's.

I have been successful in subjugating the Texrak Hegemony.

Edit: Since they "seem" to control only 1 system, I assume they are "neutral".

[ October 16, 2002, 03:38: Message edited by: tbontob ]