Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

Hello all. This is my first post here so be gentle with me if I breach any local etiquette rules http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

I've played the Space Empires series since III came out and have always (eventually) made use of Atmospheric Modification Plants to open up more space for facilities in a given system. Since installing the 1.78 patch for SE IV Gold I've discovered that you can no longer get any advantage from building multiple instances of the AMP. Is this a bug or a 'feature'?

Also, has the Climate Conrol Facility been improved so that it's actually of some use now i.e. doesn't take longer than the game runs to actually make a difference? Further to this, has it too been afflicted by the 'Thou shalt only have the benfit of one facility' change?

Whilst I think on matters of planetary modification, do multiple Value Improvement Plants still stack their rates i.e. four of them will gain you a percentage point per turn?

Any assistance would be most welcome before I go through the time and expense of building umpteen of such facilities on a world only to find that I'm just pouring resources down the drain http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

The only facilities of that nature that were ever supposed to stack were Conditions and Value Improvement Plants. I don't think Atmospheric Modification Plants were ever supposed to stack (the second should be ignored).

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

Many thanks for the clarification Imperator.

I can adapt my plans to the 20 turn wait for atmospheric conVersion easily enough so it's not really a problem that multiple AMP's no longer speed up the process.

The Climate Control Facilities still seem to be something of a waste of resources though (they're not cheap after all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ). I've got a little experiment running where I'm sequentially building CCF's on a world that has a condition of Unpleasant. I've got seven completed so far and the project has been running for over a year but there's still no sign of improvement. Given that all planetary condition does is affect reproduction rate it seems somewhat of an overly lengthy and expensive process to get it to improve (given that you can convert the entire atmosphere in only two years).

Maybe I'll just have to succomb and edit the data files to make the CCF work faster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif .

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

Climate control and Value improvement only add their improvement on the 24XX.0 turns. If the experiment has only been running for one year, you will only have had one increase happen so far.

In order to see a description change each and every year, you need at least 7 CI-3 facilities.
If you have less, it will take longer.

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

They used to operate each turn back in se3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

Hi SJ

My little climate control experiment matched your predictions pretty closely. The first CCF was completed in 2412.0, the seventh in 2413.2 and the tenth (and Last) in 2413.8. The conditions changed from Unpleasant to Mild in 2415.1 and then from Mild to Good in 2416.1.

Many thanks for the information on the actual number of CCF's you need for consistent annual improvements. It was something I was wondering about and would have had to run quite a few experiments with different numbers of CCF's to discover it for myself, so you've saved me a great deal of time. Cheers!

Also, as I'm sure everyone but me knew, Value Improvement Plants work in much the same way i.e. their effects take place on turns xxxx.1's and their percentages stack.

It's a bit irritating that these processes were coded to operate in annual jumps rather than continual increments but I suppose it was easier to implement in that fashion.

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

I'd forgotten that the VIP's used to do that, Imperator! Well it has been a few years http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif .

I think as far as the CCF's go, I'm going to increase their percentage rate. Building seven of them is just too much investment for the tiny return you get IMHO. I'd like to get an improvement in Conditions within two years for the building of a single facility as this would put them in line with the Atmospheric Converters.

Given SJ's data on the number you need with their current rates (i.e. 21% gets you a guaranteed improvement each year) I'm guessing that the Conditions are on a 1 - 100 scale with five steps (ranging from Deadly to Optimal via Harsh, Unpleasant, Mild and Good?). So a facility that improves Conditions by 10% per year would do the trick.

Because there are three levels of CCF that can be developed though, I might have to go with 4%,8% & 12% to both get the effect I'm aiming for and maintain a properly proportional stepped development for each level.

This leads to the question of whether any 'unused' percenatage gets carried forward after the Conditions have improved a step at the turn of a year. If it does, then you could end up with the position where Conditions will improve by two steps under certain circumstances.

Anyone got any ideas on this aspect of the problem?

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

what tech branch do you follow to get the these? The AMPs?

And what kind of limits are there on it's use (other than one per planet)

[ January 16, 2003, 11:07: Message edited by: couslee ]

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

couslee, Planet Utilazation, but I not sure which level the Atmospheric Modification Plants. It starts with Climate Control then Value Improvement Plants.

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

Re: Atmospheric ConVersion and Improvement
 

I don't even REMEMBER having CCFs and VIPs in SE3 what were those under

*goes to dl SE3 hoping he remembers his reg code*