[Phoenix-D]

"It's scary to see how most Americans, who always have claimed to support free thought and speech, have been convinced by their propaganda and supporting this war at any cost."

Free speech includes the freedom to hold views you find wrong or offensive, you know.

"I don't think he is half as bad as you describe but no one is defending Hussein.
Even if Americans turned him into a monster, the fact that he's a monster remains and something needs to be done about this monster.
I just think that war will make more problems that it will solve.
If they just wanted Saddam killed they a few infiltrated agents could have done it. They could support an internal revolution from the Iraqi people and maybe even place their own puppet government in power.
But they need to make an example out of Iraq so no one else dares to defy US authority, and also need an to place troops permanently there."

Wacking the leader of a head of state, without consulting any of our allies? That'd send a pretty strong message, and I guarentee there would be much yelling and screaming over even thinking about it.

"The international community is not standing for such a blatant act of imperialism now either.
The only ones that have been convinced by all this "war on terror" propaganda are Americans themselves and a few pro-Americans in their closest allies."

You're spouting about as much proof as the propagana. Please defend this: before Bush started talking war, I heard:
"Take away the sanctions, they are useless"
"Take out the inspectors, Iraq has disarmed"

Now I hear:
"The sanctions are working fine."
"Give the inspectors a chance"
"Iraq has disarmed"
"Iraq will use chem/bio weapons if we attack"

Many of these come from the same Groups, and interestingly, I've seen those Last two in the SAME ARGUMENT. Hello?

"As a matter of fact all this discussion is pointless. Even if we could make some Americans see how wrong this war is.
The decision is already done, the invasion of Iraq was planned long before 9-11.
American government, or whoever is actually in charge seems to excel in manipulating masses.
First leaving themselves open to a terrorist attack, that may have been worse than what they expected. Then skillfully manipulating the people's emotions to extract the worst part of their hatred and xenophobia and direct it towards their previously chosen enemy."

Who is spouting propagnda now? Lets see here..latest opinion poll (not hugely reliable, but it's what I've got) support for war declines to 36%. You say the international community doesn't want war; it was that SAME community that got Bush Sr. to stop before taking out Saddam Hussein in the first place. If we were so hell-bent on doing this..explain why it didn't happen then.

"So after Iraqis hate you after you've been provoking them after more than a decade. What did you expect?"

Provoking them. You have got to be ~$%~ me. The dictator in question ignores the treaty which got him the cease-fire, and is punished for it- by the UN, not just the US. And we're responsible for this. Hmm.

"I do mind my own business when the discussion is about internal USA affairs. (although I found that your discussions and complains about politician are not so different from the complains we have about own)
But here the US pretends to have higher moral standards and that it's their duty to save the rest of the world from its own barbarism.
While they are actually doing it for their own reasons. OK it's not only the oil, there's also the need to justify their military expenses, and of course unite their own people and distract them from the problems in their own country.
You have no right to accuse those who do not support you of being cowards o traitors"

I'll ask this, intead of berating you like I want to.

If it is about oil, and everything you mentioned, why Iraq? Most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabi, which is only marginally friendly to the US and has more oil.

Phoenix-D