[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
In any future game I might host I'll add a penalty to the "turn submission league" I think.
The rules are as follows:
The first three players to send in the turns get +1 points, the Last but one gets -1 and the Last player gets -2 points (Not submitted turn = -2 pts).

Then if some player/s gets to much negative score they will be kicked, this can be done in three ways:


1. I initially say that I might kick any player that gets to much negative points. (I don't like this alternative as I think the rules should be celar and avilible prior to anyone joining the game).

2. Anyone reaching a fixed limit, say -100 pts get's kicked. (If there are three players who constantly makes the first three submissions each turn then everyone else will be kicked eventually, not good).

3. A relative limit. Anyone who has 50 pts less than the one who is one step above on the pts list is kicked, positive score counts as zero.
(This is my favorite)
ex:
1..17 Others...
18. Olle +8 pts
19. Kalle -47 pts
20. Johan -97 pts.
Means Johan will be kicked as he has -50 pts less than kalle, but Kalle won't be kicked as he has -47 points less than zero (Olle has a positive score, that counts as zero).

Any reflections, ideas, suggestions??

If turns routinely come in with the same player order, three will also have the same problem you mention for option 2:

Five Players, a,b,c,d,e
a +1 per turn
b +1 per turn
c +1 per turn
d -1 per turn
e -2 per turn

After turn 50, player e will have 50 pts less than player d (50 * -2 = -100; 50 * -1 = -50) and player d will have 50 pts less than players a,b,c (as + counts as 0) so both get dropped. After that, the special case of the Last two players happens, and you start to get

a +1 per turn (50 at turn 50)
b -1 per turn (50 at turn 50)
c -2 per turn (50 at turn 50)
d Dropped
e Dropped

After 50 more turns, Player c has lost 100 points, and is now down to -50, with the next player up at 0, and so gets dropped.
(note: if the +1 for being in the first three and the -2 for being the Last stack, then c gets dropped after 100 turns rather than 50)

For that matter, unless the order is decidedly random, eventually, someone is going to get dropped.

Five players again: a, b, c, d, e
a: 50% chance of first, 20% chance second, 10% chance third, 10% chance fourth, 10% chance fifth
b: 10% chance of first, 50% chance of second, 20% chance third, 10% chance fourth, 10% chance fifth
c: 10% chance of first, 10% chance of second, 50% chance of third, 20% chance of fourth, 10% chance of fifth
d: 10% chance of first, 10% chance of second, 10% chance third, 50% chance fourth, 20% chance fifth
e: 20% chance of first, 10% chance of second, 10% chance of third, 10% chance of fourth, 50% chance of fifth

After just 84 turns:
a:84*50% + 84*20% + 84*10% - 84*10% - 2*84*10%
= 42 + 16.8 + 8.4 - 8.4 - 16.8 = 42
b:84*10% + 84*50% + 84*20% - 84*10% - 2*84*10%
= 8.4 + 42 + 16.8 - 8.4 - 16.8 = 42
c:84*10% + 84*10% + 84*50% - 84*20% - 2*84*10%
= 8.4 + 8.4 + 42 - 16.8 - 16.8 = 25.2
d:84*10% + 84*10% + 84*10% - 84*50% - 2*84*20%
= 8.4 + 8.4 + 8.4 - 42 - 33.6 = -50.4
e:84*20% + 84*10% + 84*10% - 84*10% - 2*84*50%
= 16.8 + 8.4 + 8.4 - 8.4 - 84 = -58.8

So, after 84 turns, d gets dropped (-50.4, next highest has 25.2(0)), followed by e one turn later
(d dissapeared, causing the next one up to be c, at ~ 25.2(0) while e is still at ~ -58.8)
You can run these numbers for different probability spreads (note: 84 turns was picked as the threshold for d going away; it was done after using 1000 and a little math to pick up on the fifty below threshold), but ultimately, unless the distributions for the turn order are close to even (even = everyone has 20% chance of taking any given position), you WILL drop someone eventually.

Perhaps instead it could be implemented as a production modifier - Empires of Emporers who give their orders sooner have more time to complete them, and Empires of Emporers who give their orders later have less time to complete them. Then again, that might be much too difficult.