[narf poit chez BOOM]

first, Jack, while from the point of view of someone who hasn't gotten an answer from God such answer's appear as assumption's, they are not. it's a matter of perspective. as for why should better be sought? well, you have to have experienced better to know that. if you havn't, then an answer is meaningless, except to give you the theory. and any explanation of what better gives you would just go over that whole ground again.

The average life span of 75 years is not enough time to live an average life.

Atrocities, you seem very caught up with dying. let me assure you, God does not blame humanity for his Son's death. God and his Son are one and his Son said 'forgive them, for they know not what they do'. besides the fact that most of humanity wassn't there. second, the whole purpose of the Son's coming here was to die. there's a place in the bible where Jesus is talking to Moses and a couple of other people and there talking about Him accomplishing His glorious purpose. which was to die. so that your sins could be forgiven and so that you could live again in the resurection. which resurection is nessatated by our first parents, who ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, which incident, by the way, i beleive to have been both good and nessasary. God had commanded them to be fruitfull and multiply. and all will be resurected, rendering death irrelevent, besides any life after death. irrevelent, at least, as something to fear because of the loss of this mortal body, which i do view as a loss. God created man in God's image, and man has flesh and bones. and on a Last note, 500 years would not be enough time, nor would 5000.

second, Deccan, i argue that a lot of scientists today are very certain on what seems to me little evidence. plus, i don't think any religeon can offer true joy, anymore than any philosophy or science can. that is a gift of God. however, science, philosophy and religeon can help, so long as they are honest seeker's after truth. and a religeon set up by God would naturaly be the most reliable.

quote:Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

oh, and death isn't as scary once you know it's not the end.

Originally posted by DavidG:
Which probably contributes to the fact there is so much killing going on.

that is a specious arguement. i'm not entirely sure what specious means, but i think it means 'flimsy'. i could argue better that the knowledge that God exists is more likely to make someone obey the law.

Conversely, don't try to impose anything on me. I'll make my own choices, thank you very much.

the problem is, Erax, and i'm not saying you do this, but some people won't allow you to tell them anything. apparently, i have no right to tell me beleif's to anyone. that doesn't explain how those same people feel free to tell people there belief that people don't have a right to tell people there belief's. have i confused anybody yet?

but the words of higher powers are never wrong.
Now you might point out that you are not able to reproduce, personally,

yes, but the words of people purporting to speak for the higher power often are, which is why you should always pray to God. after all, if someone tells you that i said people should do this, that and the other, hopefully you'll ask me before you start spreading it around. uh, i'm not trying to imply i'm God.
and there will be a religious expeirence that's scientifically provable. the second coming. nobody will be able to miss that, which is why your supposed to ignore anyone who says 'lo, here!' and 'lo, there!'.

no, Erax, true religeon exists to bring people closer to God. the why is just part of it.

I don't like arguing religion. Neither side can ever win because it is... faith. And faith by it's nature can never be proved or disproved.

'if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth liberally and upbraideth not.' i forget which one that is.

But... as to misery on earth being created by humans and free will... Last I checked hurricans and tornadoes and earthquakes weren't caused by humans and their freewill.

no, that's weather patterns and techtonics. which God did set up. but one thing i forgot to say is the choices aren't just slavery or free will, it's also expeirence or innocence. innocence might sound great until you realise that your cat is innocent and, becuase of that, will never be anything more. growth tends to involve pain. otherwise, you would tend not to value it.
without natural disasters, i think people would be impelled to create more of there own. it's the destructive urge.

Those who don't believe already don't believe so what is the point?
After all... what is the point of having free will and punishing for the wrong choices if you tell at least 5 different people that they have the one true path and all others are damned and can't agree on what is and isn't forgiveable?!?

people change their minds. hopefully, for the better.
people can make up religeon's on their own. plus, i think a few religeon's are corruptions of ancient, God-given ones.

If there is a god, He (or She or They) should be able to show himself in a way that even the most skeptic would have to admit He's real, and if He wants us to behave in any particular way He should give clear instructions of what He wants us to do.

The lack of such proof leads me to conclude that either 1- there is no god, or 2- He is powerless to affect our world or 3- He doesn't care what we do or what happens to us.

But those are just my personal thoughts. And it's not my intention to force my point of view on anyone else.

God has given clear instructions. but if God presented Himself undeniably to you, wouldn't that force your point of view?

The question is, "how do we tell"?

ask God.

Of course, if reality depends on your point of view, it would be possible that all three were perfectly correct.

You might say they're not in the same universe anymore, though.

i've always thought that theory was arrogant.

Spoon - see above. and stop blaming God for your personal tragedy's. most of mine are my fault or another human's. the rest are accidents.

[ November 07, 2003, 00:51: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]