[Fyron]

The difference is two engines, or ONE greater speed in combat, not two, since combat speed is half of the strategic speed.

No, the difference is 3 engines, which comes out to either one or two combat move, depending on which engines and sails you are using. Quantum Engines + Solar Sail III nets 6 combat move for BB, 4 for BS. 2 difference in combat movement.

Yes, it can still make a difference in some cases, IF you are using the Max Range strategy which I was suggesting (and which you were saying was useless).

I never said that... in fact, you were the one advocating using torpedoes against someone using APBs and max range! In fact, I listed several times when max range is not bad... although I see I forgot to mention the speed advantage in that post, which is the other time it can be advantageous.

quote:
... The only way that using max range with long range weapons is a good idea is when you have a speed advantage.

Another exaggeration. Two examples are the one you're making me re-explain below, and the example when you have a to-hit advantage over your opponent, so you want to maximize it by prolonging the time that the range is long. A third is when your enemy has shorter-ranged weapons than you do.

I suppose the wording could have been better there, as I had previously listed those other cases... It was not an exaggeration, it was part of the on-going comparison of late-game tech, in which you don't have to-hit advantages from tech (and racial bonuses tend to balance out as most players take 130% bonus anyways, or get knocked off early-game...). And, the range advantage thing was part of that paragraph. Taking that sentence on its own would lead to such an interpretation, but leaving it in context does not. But either way, my point still stands.

Unless they have an advantage in engine or Solar Sail technology, or the Propulsion Experts advantage...

This was assuming same propulsion mechanisms... if you spend the research to get BS, you won't likely be ahead in propulsion (unless far behind in other areas), unless you have a lot more research points anyways, which is a totally different issue.

The advantage is that I fired at max range, so on your next turn, you are firing at that same max range while I reload. If I didn't use Max Range, you would be nailing me at much closer range while I was reloading. Also, sometimes there are obstacles, and being at range also often means fewer of your ships will be in range to fire at all, some of my ships which have just reloaded or are just coming in range may now be closer, etc.

APBs still out-perform torpedos at those max ranges (range 6: APB XII 1.5 dmg ratio, QT V 1.25 dmg ratio)... and with torpedos not having any to hit bonus, it is really not much of an advantage. Your ships can't get away with same speed ships, so they are still going to be in range anyways. And, with the greater range of the APB, the APB ships can still get more stacking fire than the torpedo ships out at those max ranges, thus increasing the damage done by the APB side even further. Sure fewer of my APB ships will be in range to fire, but even fewer of yours will be. I will still have more ships that can fire than you, due to the range advantage. And don't forget about the shield depleters + ionic dispersers that make all that moving of yours stop.

If you do that, as I explained before, you may be pursuing a slightly-damaged ship of mine which is at max range, but to do so, you are missing many shots, and moving to closer range against some of my undamaged ships who are ready to fire at you and retreat.

Due to how SE4 strategic combat AI concentrates fire, there will be very few slightly-damaged ships to pursue. Ships that get shot at most always get shot at until they are dead (within the round), then the next target is selected.

Also, if some of your ships become damaged so that they lose speed but not weapons, they will tend to fall out of range to hit any of my ships, as the battle moves towards me and away from your stragglers.

And your ships that get damaged in the same way will fall prey to close ranged attacks. Unless you are going to spread your fire out amongst my ships, trying not to destroy, just disable (which leads to taking more damage from my ships overall as they get knocked out of combat more slowly), your ships will tend to concentrate their fire on mine, destroying them in a single round as well. It is only in those rare small battles where there is not enough firepower to vaporize that this is much of an issue.

[ November 16, 2003, 07:45: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]