[Fyron]

PvK:
Regardless of your extreme nit-picking over semantics, my arguments are still valid.

I was trying to keep the points focused to a few examples of what I meant when I said Fryon was over-generalizing in specific Posts. His Last counter-arguments tend to smear between issues, which would be a bit of work to go back and re-direct.

The issues tended to be explainable from the same sources. The issues were often the same issue.

* Ya, it's 1 or 2 combat speed difference between baseships and battleships with the same equipment. However, it's still not enough to keep baseships from having certain efficiencies, such as better mounts and the ability to pile about twice as much equipment on per set of other components, etc. My point was simply that they are not "extremely inefficient" - rather, they have some strengths and some weaknesses.

You seem to have missed a few sentences of my post where I discussed that phrase...

I never said they had no efficiencies (I in fact mentioned several of them), and that does not even follow from the "extremely inefficient" phrase. Their inefficencies just outweigh the effeciencies in most situations, leading to such a conclusion.

* Fryon wrote: "in fact, you were the one advocating using torpedoes against someone using APBs and max range!" Not even! I was just explaining what advantages there were in that style of fighting, while repeatedly saying that I thought they were still a weaker weapon than APB XII so I'd be surprised if it made the difference.

Your post on it seems to be advocating such a thing. Perhaps that is not what you meant to say in that post... let me nit-pick over a single term for a few days here...

What I was arguing about, were Fryon's exaggerations on other details.

It is rather rude to talk about someone in the third person when they are "present", you know.

* He's continuing to miss or dodge the point that while reloading and unable to fire, it's better to be as far away as possible, instead of close.

Not at all. I never once said that it was bad to get farther away while reloading, nor anything approaching such a statement. I have just been saying that unless you have a speed advantage, you can not get away from being shot at with same or shorter ranged weapons. All you can hope to do at best is keep the same distance. Which we seem to be in agreeance on... what are we arguing over here?

He's either failing to understand what I've explained several times,

I have understood everything you have said. Please don't post veiled insults again (or things that can come across as such). Thanks.

or hoping no one will notice that he's just repeating an unrelated argument which I agree with, that unmodded APB XII does do a lot more total damage than Quantum Torps.

Your argument seems to be different than what you have been posting then... perhaps you should try to be a little clearer?

* As for statements about the frequency of battles so huge that all ships are smashed in one turn, etc., that largely depends upon circumstances. In my experience, I've seen many battles where Max Range/Don't Get Hurt has allowed a smaller fleet to defeat a much larger one.

Certainly that was not the only difference in those cases. In my experience, the only time I have seen that happen is when that smaller fleet has a significant advantage in to hit chances (such as drastically better racial bonuses, a tech advantage, or those ridiculous talismans). Or if they have a tech advantage in the weapons department and can deal a higher damage ratio...

I've also watched replays with hundreds of ships in them, where many ships were not destroyed on the first turn they came under fire. Many of course were destroyed in one turn, so it's true that often you don't get a chance to run away, but sometimes you do, and it only takes sometimes to give an advantage, even if a slight one, which is what I had meant to argue.

But unless you can move faster than the enemy, you can not run away! They will always be able to follow you, at worst just maintaining the same difference. (and don't take yet another sentence quoted out of context)

[ November 17, 2003, 20:28: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]