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Old February 19th, 2004, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: OT:splendid WWII movie you\'ll never see:(

You are way off base here. The main reason that the big raids were far and few between were two fold. The biggest hindrance was the internal battle between the American precision daylight bombing camp and the English night area bombing camp. It was also a problem of logistics. It takes a massive logistical effort to put 1000 bombers over a target in a coordinated raid of this scale. Of the early large scale raids, only the first had good results, and there was pressure to have the bombers bomb many competing targets.

The second reason was also a difference of opinion, the Americans wanted to target specific areas of the German war economy, while bomber command was under orders from Churchill to bomb the German people. "an absolutely devastating, exterminating attack by very heavy bombers upon the Nazi homeland." Is how Bomber Harris remembered it in his letters.

Hamburg had been bombed over 100 times by July 43, when Harris issued the order for the raid in question.


[quote]
This is a letter, dated as early as 27 May 1943, and written by Harris to his six group commanders, setting out his future intentions.
The first part can usefully be included here.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
MOST SECRET
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
BOMBER COMMAND
OPERATION ORDER NO. 173
Copy No: 23 Date: 27th May, 1943
__________________________________________________ _________________________________
INFORMATION
The importance of H A M B U R G. the second largest city in Germany with a population of one and a half millions, is well known and needs no further emphasis. The total destruction of this city would achieve immeasurable results in reducing the industrial capacity of the enemy's war machine. This, together with the effect on German morale, which would be felt throughout the country, would play a very important part in shortening and in winning the war.
2. The 'Battle of Hamburg' cannot be won in a single night. It is estimated that at least 10,000 tons of bombs will have to be dropped to complete the process of elimination. To achieve the maximum effect of air bombardment, this city should be subjected to sustained attack.
Forces to be Employed
3. Bomber Command forces will consist of all available heavies in operational squadrons until sufficient hours of darkness enable the medium bombers to take part. It is hoped that the night attacks will be preceded and/or followed by heavy daylight attacks by the United States VIIlth Bomber Command.
INTENTION
4. To destroy HAMBURG.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
The Battle of Hamburg, The Firestorm Raid, Martin Middlebrook, pg. 95.


[end quote]

And as we all know, the Americans joined in.

But then the Americans went down the path of deep penetration bombing, and the result was the suspension of daylight bombing beyond the range of escort fighters. After that the Americans played with the Big Week theory, and then switched to back to specific daylight precision targets.

When Harris sent 770+ bombers against Dresden, the reason was not completely clear. But the results were stunning. The Americans followed up with two raid totaling about 500 planes. There have been many reasons given, terror bombing of civilians being the popular one, and retaliation for the bombing of Canterbury being another. Recently there has been evidence that the allies felt that there were research facilities of significant value there. I am inclined to think it was the latter; the 8th had better targets on the list than Dresden.

The Encyclopedia Britannica of 1936 Lists the city as a center of higher education and research. It starts out by stating that the city was the seat of a number of well-known scientific associations. The educational institutions are numerous and of high order. It also mentions that the city was a transportation hub linking the rest of the nation to the Elbe river transportation system. Then the article mentions the extensive distilleries that were situated in the city. So take your pick. IMHO it was a combination off targets. The universities were probably doing work on advanced physics, there was most likely fuel production from the distilleries and it was also a transportation target. The lack of a specific justification for the bombing by the allies would suggest that the universities may have been high on the list.

At Hamburg 50,000 people were killed, more or less. Of more value, over a million people were displaced and fled the city. Dresden lists 135,000 killed.

The air war in Europe was a battle of opposing ideas, and probably of egos too. But when LeMay went to the Pacific, he switched to night time incendiary raids. He has stated that the Japanese cities were prime targets for fire raids, and that they had little or no ability to defend against his bombers at night. Japan lacked the radar guided artillery that ringed the major German cities.

As a side note I would add that AAA downed more allied bombers than fighters did. 3 to 1 IIRC. And the allies already had proximity fused AAA shells by 1945. Had the Germans developed the technology, stream bombing might have been out of favor by the end of the war.
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