[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Jasper:

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Originally posted by Chris Byler:
The only use I've found for LI so far is their javelins - they do as much damage as longbows, and because of their shorter range, they have better accuracy. A squad of LI behind a squad of HI can be fairly effective against moderately armored troops. Against Ulm you still need crossbows or magic though.

I got alot of mileage out of my starting 25 LI with Machaka by using similar tactics, although not enough I built any more.

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Yes - but if there were a heavy infantry with javelins, wouldn't they be even better at it? Come to think of it, Pythium legionnaires do have javelins. Aren't they better at this sort of thing than LI?

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Some people on this thread seem to be claiming that it shouldn't take any more money to maintain a company of fifty men with Full Plate of Ulm, a full helmet, tower shield and warhammer (say) than spears, leather hauberks, javelins and maybe hard leather caps. I don't see how you can support this view - if nothing else, war gear wears out or breaks and has to be replaced. That costs something.

[Further stuff suggest gold maintenance cost for high resource troops snipped]

My main arguement here is simply game complexity. I would only support giving them more maintenance in a uniform manner, e.g. by increasing their cost, or by calculating resources in the gold maintenance cost.

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Ok, I agree. And I also think that if their ineffectiveness on the battlefield could be solved, it might not be necessary to make them cheaper - but as it is, they definitely need an advantage of some sort, and being quick to raise isn't enough when they are also so much quicker to die.

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On the other hand, I also think that a large part of the heavy vs. light problem stems from light troops' ineffectiveness on the battlefield (snip)

Historically Light troops got demolished by heavy troops in frontal melee. Furthermore, massed heavy infantry had more staying power, despite what one might guess from heavy armor.

Making Light Troops more powerfull in Melee is not a good solution, IMHO. They _should_ get demolished in melee.

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Then what do you suggest? Hit and run isn't very effective if you can only hit once a month. Their strategic movement is often blocked by terrain, and even when it isn't, raiding in the enemy's rear doesn't produce enough effect to justify the risk of defeat in detail, even for a quick-to-raise force. (At least in my experience - has anyone tried a serious campaign of pillaging all over the place (possibly with a bunch of Implementor Axes) faster than the enemy's army can pin you down? It seems likely they'd just respond by sieging - but then, heavy troops are no better than light at breaching walls, Ulmish Sappers excepted.)

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Finally, historically there were melee weapons specifically designed to pierce armor - pikes, for instance. Why aren't they armor piercing in Dom (I or II)?[snip]

I see no basis for this in history at all. Pikes were used because they were long, that's it.

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Hmm, maybe I am misremembering. In any case, there are counters to armor in Dom I/II, but they usually cost more than the HI. Furthermore most counters to HI require a way to stop the HI from killing the fragile units that can effectively damage them (i.e. crossbowmen or mages) - which often means more HI, although summons can also be used.