[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Minotaurs are really not scary... in the default game they have low HP (compared to what I'd expect from Greek mythology), super-low attack and defense, and only a battleaxe that never hits.

They're probably intended to be used mainly as tramplers, with the battleaxe as a fallback in case they have to face cavalry.

They probably - OK, certainly - would be scary if they got "Fear"=) Even a lesser fear, like fear -2, might be nice if it hit everyone they trampled.

Trample does enough morale damage with all the people it wounds...

But conceptually, I dislike giving minotaurs fear. Instead... giving them "gore" and additional attack and defense might be useful... I don't see any reason why they should fight below the level of militia.

I have never understood why their skills are THAT low either. Berserk will trash their DEF even if it was good to start with, so the only point of low skills is to make them unable to hit the broad side of a barn if they aren't berserk yet. I think it's excessive.

(snip detailed stat comparison)

As you can see, the war minotaur is WAY more costly and WAY worse. Moving the minotaurs up to size 4, 32 HP, 11 attack and 9 defense, 19 strength... and maybe 45-50 gold... would make them worth building. Possibly. If they're still bad, increasing natural protection to 6 or giving a gore or hoof attack would resolve it.

-Cherry

11 attack and 19 strength? On a Berserk 4? That makes them 15 attack, 23 strength - with battleaxes! - once they take a point of damage (assuming of course that they survive it, which is why I like the natural protection idea). I think that's just a bit excessive for a 40 gold unit.

Defense wouldn't help them much - if they have to fight instead of trample, they will probably shortly be berserk (which, incidentally, already makes up for most of the attack and strength difference from a Jotun and makes them unroutable - but WM are still far more fragile for a higher cost.) Protection is almost always better than defense, but doubly so for a berserker who gets extra protection and reduced defense *and* needs to get hit and survive to go berserk in the first place.

I like the idea of giving them more natural protection - it would help both the normal and the war minotaur. More HP would help them survive long enough to go berserk, too.

A gore attack seems appropriate, but probably wouldn't do much for them - they already have good offense if they're berserk and can't hit worth a damn if they're not.

Do they have recuperation? Any unit that needs to get wounded to fight effectively isn't going to do well in the long term if it can't recuperate.

They ought to be viable without Mass Protection, and very dangerous with it. Currently - they're not as much of a risk to the rest of your army as chariots or elephants because they have good morale and berserk, but instead you risk losing a lot of expensive minotaurs every time they take the field.