[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Truper

Very amusingly written For what its worth, the Moloch still makes a fine combattant in support of an army, but you're right, you can't use him on his own.

Indeed, but if what I wanted was fire support, there are both those that are cheaper and better amongst the pretenders, unless it is a flying support mage I need or I need an exceptionally high fire level to start with, which I likely will not, as I am probably going to invest considerably in air magic as well, since a support mage without precision is like a giraffe on rollerblades.

Now, if the Moloch had both the early game power that would seem intended AND the fire support utility later on, then it would, indeed, be a worthy pretender.

I'm not sure your proposed solution would work - it depends on the sequence of events in combat. If the rout check takes place before new creature generation, then the Moloch would still rout whenever all his Imps had been killed

I am pretty sure it will work. I tried something like it on a Demonbred by mistake.

...He was happily flying around with 35 devils and a truckload of magic items, including lifelong protection (for style!), when he inadvertently blundered into a very big army of some 300+ units including a pretender great mother and her 25 varied commander friends. My entire army was wiped out despite retreat possibilities, and though I cannot swear to it, it did look as if the Demonbred survived three rounds after the destruction of the Last devil, with new imps appearing at his side, while he happily bLasted away at point blank range with his magic.

Now, I may be mistaken, if some devil was tucked away in a corner of the battlefield amongst the 100+ surviving enemies where I did not notice it, but I think it would work.

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
You can put a "slave collar" on him. The disadvantage is that then he will never flee.

Indeed, by investing in blood I can put a cursed slave collar on my pretender [the inherent logic or lack of same of enslaving one's own mind to oneself is amusing to contemplate] or forge my own cursed lifelong protection by letting the Moloch make a deal with ANOTHER devil, probably some lower ranking flunky in the heirarchy of hell, who is unworthy of licking the Moloch's feet, to supply imps. There are any number of ways I can get around the issue after some 10 rounds or so....

...Which does not change the silliness of the situation one iota, namely that the one nasty pretender that screams Super Combatant, even in its job description, is useless as such in the early game, and expensive for its abilities to boot when you consider its extensive vulnerabilities.

Ah, well, I am incredibly biased on this - it is just so frustrating to bypass the Moloch for the Prince of Death or the Golden Naga every single time, based on projected impact, price, and utility.