[Daynarr]

Where does Arco have Stealth Troops? They have stealth commanders, but I don't quite see their stealth troops. Or do you not consider stealth Vans and Valks to be any sort of advantage.

You said stealth OPTION not troops and stealth commander that diminishes your domain is quite an option - even more so since a single commander is harder to spot than stealth army.

The option to utilize it is there. I said minor ability, there are instances where if you use scouts to blood hunt, you could take advantage of blood. Whereas Arco doesn't have the option. It's about versatility for a situation.

The reason why scouts can be used is because they are cheap and can be equipped with cheap items. You don't use 380 gold commanders to get same results. Well maybe YOU do.

Well they have the option at least. GE doesn't have the option unless they use Indeps. And Einherese are very nice.

GE doesn’t have HI???? They have BETTER protected HI and can use same quality HI from independents, which gives them 2 options as I see. Vanheim are pretty much stuck with one type and that type is barely HI considering that something below 15 protection would be Medium infantry.

There is a commander that lets all your units fly even if they don't? Which one is that? Because Sailing allows that, which while not on the same level as a SINGLE flying commander, Valkaries fly and if you equip a commander with a flying item, are just as good as the inherently flying commander. Considering that you can't bless your Wind Riders with the Wind Rider Commander, but have to use a Flying Priestess, I consider them on equal footing except that Van can sail if the opportunity presents itself.

This 'point' is the reason I still reply to this discussion. First of all GE has 2 commanders that can fly so why would they ground commander??? Items that you can build quickly or cheap let your commander alone or just a small group of troops fly with them and there is only one unique item that allows you to fly your entire army with them. I need only 1 flying item to bring my priestess with them and it can be made quick and cheap enough (at least for Arco). There is a BUNCH of cheap items that allow you to increase a number of units you can command if you really need to.

I can't believe that someone would even argue that sailing could be EQUAL to flying. Think about it, that isn't a matter of opinion or experience but single fact that you can move 3 territories on map ANYWHERE and GE has means to do so while sailing allows you to cross ONLY 1 sea territory. Geez.

Yes the Priestesses and the ability to heal any affliction, disease and having someone who can cast protection is something that Van does not have access too. But it hardly catapults it ahead of a Van nation with 3 Productivity, 3 Order.

Vans don't NEED 3 productivity for anything else then gold because their units cost much more gold then resources (with the exception of their "HI"). Turmoil scale 1 is not so much of a disadvantage and you can beef up other scales with spare design points or use high admin castle. You are making it sound like you MUST have 3 in production in order to win a game. Priestess is much more worth it in my experience, but as you said it, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Well it's hardly a surprise that you feel that way as you more than likely said you liked the current system or suggested it when you were beta testing it. However others are entitiled to see flaws in your argument. Which I do.

You don't have to agree with me bout you do have to respect other peoples opinion as well and, beta tester or not, am entitled to one as well. And just like you may see flaws in my argument I can see flaws in yours so that is why I said to "agree to disagree" and don't see a point why you drag this as dead cat around.

The Wind Rider would be no more abusive if he cost 100Gold or 110 Gold. It's not as if suddenly that extra 1 for every 4 Wind Riders is going to throw balance completely out of the window.

Here you say that change in gold cost for Wind Rider is so small that it wont change balance. Then why should there BE a change in cost?

But seeing as you can't see the possibility then there is no reason to discuss it further.

On that I agree.

Edit: Typos.

[ February 17, 2004, 19:14: Message edited by: Daynarr ]