April 28th, 2004, 09:01 PM
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Re: Pangaeda: New Age - the redheaded stepchild of Dom2?
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Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
(1) It's thematic (sort of). NE uses better armor, NE smiths are its Panii, who should be well versed in earth magic for the same reason Master Smiths are.
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This is where the Magic Paths have multiple meanings. I'm all fine and good that Smiths have Earth because of their forging ability. But Earth also has a meaning of using the earth and it's power for spells, not only forging.
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(2) I can't understand your point about the lack of fairness at all. I agree that attracting Maenads isn't really worth a magic level, but it's more fair by several orders of magnitude than what we've got now: 1 earth level AND maenads vs NOTHING - for the same 350 gold?!? Are you kidding? Plus, default Pangaea gets almost all what NE gets, bar 2 points of protection on a few units, and much much more to make up for that several times.
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The Lack of Fairness comes from the Theme itself. Base Pan is more wild, NE is more militarized and such. It says right in the theme they have left their roots of wild and magic to become more warlike and militaristic. Using that as a basis for the sake of argument then it could be said "Why are the Pan's more powerful in NE than Base Pan when it says the exact opposite?". I don't think it's fair that NE has less magic, but that their Panii have MORE magic than their supposed Basic "More Magical" Pan cousins.
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Hell if I understand why you say that. The only problem is balance, and I can't see this change doing anything but helping fixing that.
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If the front window of your car is broken and you change it to the back window, is the window still broken?
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The Satyrs are the same in NE. And base War Minos are just fine - much better than NE Minos.
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For their cost and effectiveness yes, but this was to say that everyone saying "Those Pans are just way too cheap for what they do" is not a common complaint. Rather it's the Satyrs and Minos that have the complaint.
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They aren't really - but they sure look overpowered when compared to their NE cousins. Or these look underpowered if you prefer. And I see that as a problem.
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I never said that it wasn't a problem. Only that reducing the Base Panii (which has no obvious problems) does not make sense when it is not they who are the issue, but the NE Panii. Why weaken Base Pan (which is very respectable but not overtly powerful) to put it even with NE? Instead increase NE so that it's even with Base Pan. When I think things need to be fixed, it's not only in the realm of it's base and other themes, but all the nations and their themes.
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And why wouldn't you want to mahe the NE Pan at least as powerful as the standard one? Do you think NE is a better theme overall?
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No but the developers did (made them less powerful). I see no reason why it should be any different than the Base Pan, they don't strap on Armor and give them Black Steel weapons so they should be basically the same except without Maeneds. But obviously IW thought they should be less powerful for their own reasons (which could be thematic, could be balance) so this was to fit with their vision of it. Or if they are willing to budge on the Panii, just make them the same is my Vote.
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The random pick is still here. Just for the record, Panii in Dominions 1 had 1 earth 3 nature and no random. Pangaea wasn't considered as one of the most powerful nations then, but they weren't crap either.
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I know that is what they were in Dom1, but obviously they felt a change was in order. I personally like the 2E very much and it adds alot to the theme from getting away from it's *pure* Nature feel. I think Pan right now does very well, with only a few minor issues and of course trying to use a Maenede strategy (which I think should be viable, but is not). NE and CW on the other hand need help.
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