[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Blitz:
How many apparently magic based themes do you know that have exactly ONE mage? Heck, how many themes have one mage? Ulm, Ulm: IF, Pan: New Ara, and GE Arco?

First, GE Arco has two. The Mystic and the Priestess.

Second, how many nations use their weaker mages for anything other than research? There's Communion Slaves, and forging weaker items. That's about it. While _not_ inconsequential, the useful Nature items are not out of Arco's reach.

Third, it's not really about quantity so much as quality. The Mystic is generally considered one of the best mages in the game, if random. You can get 2+ in any of the Elemental paths. That's sort of the equivalent of 4 different mage types. Take a look at Mictlan's Mages. 3 of them are the same except for the non-Blood magic they get (with the small difference in the Priest King). If it were possible to get random picks restricted to specific paths, they could be represented by one unit.

With regards to the vaunted Seithkona, here's a scenario for you. You play Utgard Jotunheim, and I play GE Arco. You buy a Seithkona every turn for the first 21 turns (so you have 20), and I buy a Philosopher every turn for the same amount of time. Assuming an equal magic scale (a fair assumption, since your Cold-2 roughly balances with your 25 pt. charge for Utgard, plus my 40 points for Sloth), we will produce the same amount of research points in that time (assuming Magic-0, 1050) from these units. However, you will have spent a total of 3150 gold on your Seithkonur, while I will have spent 1749.3 gold on my Philosophers. This gives me 1400 more gold than you to be spent over 20 turns, for an average of 70 gold per turn. This only gets worse the longer we continue this.

If you think this is going too far in turns, then look at when we each have 10 (turn 11). For the same number of research points from these units, you'll have spent 1320 gold, and I will have spent 733.15. This difference is 586.85 gold.

Now, let's take a slightly different scenario. Assume that we have each bought one of our 'researchers' for the first ten turns, and then (from a second castle) bought ten more mages. Since I cannot get Philosophers in my second fortress, let me build Mystics instead. Let's see how we stand on turn 21 now.

You've spent 4626 gold total, have 31 Seithkonur, and made 1380 RPs (assuming Magic-0 scale).

I've spent 4701 gold, have 20 Philosophers and 11 Mystics, and made 1512 RPs (assuming Magic-0 scale).

Upkeep on these mages are 31 * 6 = 186 gold a turn for you, and (20 * 3.333)= 66.667 gold for the philosophers, and (11 * 9) = 99 gold for the mystics. This calculates to 165.667 gold total for me. You're still paying more for your researchers on maintenance (20g), and I'm producing more research. This is if I choose to maximize research. If I choose to minimize gold expenditure, I build Priestesses instead of Mystics, and I will spend less for my mages than you will on yours, and have less upkeep. I don't see how this is something against GE Arco.

I think, Blitz, that GE Arco is just something that doesn't work for you. That's nothing against you, but that's also nothing against GE Arco. Not everything has to play the same, and if you like the way that base Arco plays, but not GE, that's fine. Just don't try to dictate how others should play, and everyone will be fine.