[PvK]

HotNifeThruButr, I agree with your latest post, except that knights are expensive and so often not a necessary risk. They can defeat giants, but still tend to get killed when they are hit by giants, so it's better if you can avoid that. I would try to engage first with cannon fodder, and follow up with the knights, but the times when I did use knights, I ended up regretting I had, because some of them got hit and died, while the battles I fought without them, I still won if I had enough cannon fodder and something safer to hit the giants with.

In your previous post, though, I wouldn't use your unit choices:

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
... I think good anti-giant infantry are

Imperial Footmen with glaives, the infantry of the people! Celestial Soldiers and Demons of Heavenly Rivers work well too, I mean, what CAN'T they do?

What Celestial summons can't do is be replaced easily if they get hit by too many giant weapons.

I don't think Imperial Footmen are as good a choice as ordinary footmen, because they are more expensive and take more resources for their armor, which mainly just slows them down from getting out of the way of that GIANT AXE - oh no!!! Ordinary glaive footmen might be a reasonable choice, though.

Machaka Hoplites, but that's kind of a stretch

Exactly my point. Like other good HI, these are great against many units but are juicy/crunchy targets for giants. The Machakan spear and bow fodder, on the other hand, will keep the giants about as busy as the hoplites will, but can be churned out in massive numbers quite quickly, and you actually hope they'll mostly die off by the time your giant problem is over, because against many other types, they aren't worth their keep.

Elemental demons, all nice and strong if I remember right. The Devil gets the added bonus of having a fork. They'll provide all the punch you need for Abysia and Mictlan.

Meeting force with force. Might be effective, but perhaps not efficient, since they can hire giants probably more easily than you can summon these guys. And even if you can match their giants with demons, I'd expect it would be better to take care of them mainly with cheap-o units, and use those demons against something else.
As Mictlan, again I'd tend to use the chaff light units and slaves to keep the giants busy and overwhelmed by numbers, while picking them off with magic, indy archers, etc.

...
I've never actually used Barbarians or Lizard Warriors, but I guess they'll do in a pinch.

Yes, though I would use a mixture of 1/3 to 1/5 of these costly heavy-hitters, and the rest the cheapest available chaff.

Marignon Halberdiers and Swordsmen, (see Celestial Soldiers and Demon of Heavenly Rivers)

I'm not very familiar with those, but they might be ok as the 1/3 to 1/5 heavy hitters amongst the fodder.

Maybe Skinshifters, I've never been in a Van vs Jotun situation. I'm sure Einheres would get a strength bonus once they berserk, but they probably won't survive the first hit by a giant.

Expensive and fragile choices. Not worth risking against giants, except maybe some green ones in small numbers amongst many other chaff. Again, I'd pick the cheapest units available.

I don't think Pythium has any reliable response to Jotunheim. Their best bet would probably be the Hydra.

Pythium has fodder, I think. There's no real reason to use special national fodder though, if you have indy fodder. Add a castle with Admin to a Tribal province and it can provide enough fodder to keep a lot of giants busy.

Atlantian War Shamblers are good, theoretically, but I haven't used them much.

Yes but not against giants. Expensive and hardy... but only hardy enough to be a juicy target for giant weapons.

Ulm has infantry with two handed weapons, which generally pack a very satisfying punch. ...

They have these, yes, but they come with heavy armor which is useful against troops whose weapons it has an effect on. Big waste to use them against giants, except maybe as the hard-hitting minority. Even still, I'd only send a few green ones in, since there will be casualties.

I don't play Caelum much, but with them, I would probably depend on the Mammoth, same with Arcosephalean elephants.

Sounds like force-on-force, and though I don't Caelum much either, Arco elephants are expensive. Moreso than Jotun giants by a long shot, and they are probably too big for giants to trample anyway, so I expect they'd be an awful choice. I'd use Peltasts and/or Cardaces.

With Man, I would place my bet on Wardens, but you're probably better off taking advantage of the giants' poor attack skill and use Knights/Knights of Avalon.

Wardens and other elite armored types are expensive and will get squished. They might be somewhat effective, but won't be efficient to lose, I expect.

Ermor... relax, the giants'll have a hard time getting anywhere near you with your death domain. Now go grab some ice cream or some undead wenches.

Ya and in theory, hordes of low-HP undead are the perfect thing to deal with giants, as long as they don't have a good thing to deal with your undead.

With Pangaea, even though minotaurs carry a big axe, you don't want them anywhere near giants. Better to take advantage of the giants' poor attack skill (deja vu) and use Centaur Warriors.

No, again, I think Centaur warriors would be way too expensive to put in the way of giant weapons. I'd use Satyrs and Maenads!

PvK

[ June 23, 2004, 22:51: Message edited by: PvK ]