[rabelais]

Originally posted by Boron:
(snip!)

really curious i know i must have overlooked something with my assertions

Heh.

I wasn't criticizing any particular set-up, just offering my own (fairly extensive MP) experience in playing S+A.

But since you're asking for an analysis of your design. I'll try to indulge you.

I think the main issue with the strategy you outline is early expansion/viability in MP.

Having an "uber" VQ with crap scales and a watchtower means that everyone is going to make it their number one priority to kill you.

Your income analysis ignored the major difference that my Version has a citadel, which gives admin income advantages, and make people unlikely to want to storm your capital.

Also, one's capital provides the bulk of the income through the (most important) beginning turns and growth-3 allows you to run taxes at 120% without pop loss.

In practical terms you've underestimated the income advantage (already large)of the scale set up by at least another 40%, and that will widen as the game goes forward.

While it is true that the VQ will eventually make for a fine normal troop killing machine, that requires research driven buffs... with no income for regular troops you will be *very* slow at the start. Too slow to avoid being cannibalized, in my view.

I'm not saying S+A is without problems, but the art of doing well with S+A is surviving long enough to get your CM's and mini SC's (Nobles, Troll Kings, firbolg) outfitted for combat, while maximizing your expansion and gem income.

Plus I'll have a sizable base army to supplement, which is not obviously the case for the scorched-earth VQ setup.

Even ignoring the expansion advantage... By midgame the scale heavy strat will have more mages, more research, a better primary SC, a much better fort for choke points, hugely better income and better diplomatic prospects. IMHO.

I think the Earth Mother is an excellent choice for S+A as it gives you relatively inexpensive coverage of your weak paths. I have come to prefer the naked Nata just because it is absolutely free, you don't have to be as careful with it, it can't research, so you *have* to expand with it, and in mid/late game they make the ultimate SC.

By putting all your eggs in the VQ basket you're sacrificing much of the flexibility that makes S+A fun (and extremely effective mid/late game)

It's a matter of taste, perhaps.

I'd be interested in hearing stories from those who have played S+A in MP... is the callow VQ strat viable, particularly post-nerf?


Rabe