Quote:
Cainehill said:
Quote:
Boron said:
yeah but murdering winter does not too much too unless lategame :
because early-midgame you will rarely have a big enough target where it may be costeffective to use (expect enemy capitol perhaps ).
furthermore you need most likely construction 6 before to have a 5W mage + you need evocation 7 or 8 for murdering winter .
(...)
once reaching a critical mass you can increase your clams really fast :
from 100 clams you can cast either 1 wish / turn
or convert them back to water and forge 5 additional clams each turn without dwarfen hammer or 7 each turn with dwarfen hammer 
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Gee, speaking of situational, for Wish you need Alteration _9_, and a mage with Astral 9. That's a bit harder to get then Evocation 7 and Water 5, unless you're a strong Astral nation, you have to take it on your pretender. And conventional wisdom is that it's unwise to put Astral on your pretender unless it's immortal.
That Murdering Winter on the other hand can target the other nation's capitals, it can target their library/sage guild provinces and really nail their research (and quite possibly bunches of items on the sages), it can target armies that are about to attack you, quite possibly killing some mages and causing their magic troops to be left out of the attack.
Doesn't seem all _that_ limitted to me. 
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you always only quote parts of my argumentation not the whole
i said the murdering winter is available earliest midgame and costeffective most likely only in mid-lategame too.
when you start to build clams until midgame you can choose what to do :
if you see need for murdering winter you can stop clamproducing for a few turns and use your watergems for that or if quick needed convert clam astral pearls back to water .
BUT with clamhoard you can also cast fires from afar / flames from the sky if you need it .
so you are more flexible and have as bonus a 10-20 higher astral gem income in midgame .
thats what i said or at least what the intention of my previous post was perhaps i had it in mind but didn't say it clear enough
because against lots of nations murdering winter is of little use :
against caelum , ermor , jotunheim
against abysia , r'leh , atlantis you need probably 2-3 wolven winter first to drop temperature from heat 3 to cold 3 .
furthermore finding the r'leh / atlantis capitol is not so easy because your scouts can't go underwater without water breathing items . and only 1 strat move underwater so if the capitol is hidden in the middle of the sea lots of chances for r'lehs pd to find your spy before and kill him .