Quote:
tinkthank said:
Hey Boron, I agree with almost everything you have said and analyzed here. Caelum and Abysia incredibly strong late game with these strats.
But... didn't I beat you in an MP game with me playing Marignon? 
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lol yeah sure but this is what i have said anyways
i said marignon will probably rush 1-2 opponents to death but then a stronger opponent will kill you in mid-lategame anyways
since in a 2 player game on urgaia i am the only opponent this is different though
it is for games with 1-4 players and less than 100 provinces vanheim , marignon , ulm etc. are extremely strong .
in midsized games like inland they still have a good chance but it is already quite hard to win with marignon especially there .
in orania / karan / faerun / world map etc. it is almost impossible to win with vanheim / marignon etc .
the good thing though is that if you take d3 on your pretender midgame with spectres even marignon can reach enough magic flexibility to start clamhoarding / fetish hording / blood hunt etc.
so with getting magic flexibility by opponent rushing and getting their searched provinces and then midgame relying on spectres/indy mages for flexibility even marignon is probably quite good lategame too .
i think though vampires are strong and so are devils as graeme pointed out i saw it all in all though a bit too narrow .
marignons knights of the chalice + flaming arrows x-bows are quite dangerous too .
sure especially by lightning battlemagic they get killed quite well .
but vampires get killed by wither bones quite well .
devils get killed quite well by staff of storms + wrathful skies + lightning battle spells .
so everywhere is a counter .
the only thing which makes vampires so special is their immortality .
in a 1on1 they lose though probably against fire blessed knights of the chalice / vans too .
the only "sad" thing is that most national troops are kinda useless .
all archers with wind guide / flaming arrows are not bad , but friendly fire is an issue .
most blessable troops are good , expect vans + were jaguars all are capitol only though afaik .
finally the berserk troops ( minotaurs ) and jotunheims troops because they are so tough are good .
almost all other troops are somewhat really bad though which is about 3/4 .
as pickles said in the other thread as ulm especially i don't really care which of my 10 different HI's i produce since they are all very very similiar .
they are unfortunately though so slow that their use is anyway limited .
i prefer x-bows/sappers + knights over all kinds of ulm HI because the knights can luckily reach at least the enemy archers/mages with luck quite quick and the sappers/x-bows can do some damage .
the hi though is just too slow , gets decimated extremely by magic damage spells already earlygame , then is swarmed and routed .
enc 6-10 + move of 5-9 makes the ulmish hi ****ty.
att is "only"10 but with fatigue it drops a bit to 7-9 depending on fatigue .
so the ulmish infantry will be quite fatigued when reaching finally the enemy + be at least 3-4 battle rounds under full fire .
even early game a caelum army with just quickness + aim + lightning will decimate them pretty quick .
midgame either massfalsehorrorspawning or massorblighntnings will be a pain .