[Stormbinder]

Cainehill said:

Historically, I think it's damn rare, to say the least, for a nation to say "If you attack me, I'm giving all my gold, weapons and ships to so-and-so so they can destroy you".

That's not what happened in our game Cain. Not in the 1st situation that happen 6 turns ago, and to which me and Arcahe are refering to. Regarding 2nd sitution (which was described by Zap and which is the topic for this discussion) we are actually in agreement.

There's a difference between sending gifts to someone who may avenge you ("France may destroy me in the month to come; in case they do, here is the location of weapon stashes in the mountains, and the information about their plans that my spies have gathered...") and de facto threatening suicide by promising to give all your resources to someone else in retaliation.

Again that's not what happned in our game 6 or so turns ago. As far as I know Zap was treatening to use all his resourses for himself, not give them to somebody else.

Germany didn't send all their gold to Japan when it was obvious they were going to lose.

Bad example Cain. In fact they did. Didn't they send a lot of their strategic materials, including large reserves of uranium oxide (over 1000 pounds), "heavy water", blueprints for ballistic V2 missles and for jet fighters and other strategic materials with thier latest reseach regarding development of atomic bomb via U2 submarines to Japan? That's as close to sending "magic gems and unique artifacts" as you can get in real world.

And all that despite the fact that there was never much love lost between Germany and Japan, despite them being allies in Axis. Germany badly wanted Japan to attack Soviets from the East, while Japans did not want any of that after Khalhing Goll mess. The Japan wanted military assistance from advanced Germany's military technology and scientists, which Hotler refused to give it since he didn't trust japanese. Nevertheless, when Germany was faced with the certain defeat by the end of WW2 they tried to screw their enemies one Last time by sending these boats to Japan and hoping they will revenge them.


Anyway, it's all beside the point. I was arguing that threating the country to make his own rival the "king" is a somewhat valid and historically proven tactic. Zap have pushed it harder than the most, true, but that by itself does not make it unethical, in my opinion. But vialating "no quiters rule" in such way does, IMHO.


Answering Archae: I agree that in both situations I would end up as a winner. And yes, I did not want to win the game in such manner, neither back than not now, and that's why I worked hard to avoid it, both back than and now, as you know. But just because the results of such actions are similar(meaning I end up as a winner) does not mean that the actions themself are the same, since both the situations back than and now, as well as what Zap have threatened to do is very different.


But anyway, enough about it. Time to hit the bed for me.