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Old September 16th, 2004, 10:47 AM
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Boron Boron is offline
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Default Re: From the mouth of Aristotle

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Zen said:
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Boron said:
Another thing where i am quite interested but where it is hard to impossible to get good answers is how effective Stealth technology really is . The "sucky" europeans now just developed finally the eurofighter while you develop your F-22 Raptor who has stealth abilities but is an adequate all role fighter too unlike e.g. the F-117 .
So if only half of what your PR's say/claim there the F-22 is probably 20-30 years ahead of the eurofighter and every other fighter that exists at the moment in the world .
Ah, the F-22 Raptor is definitive of it's generation of Stealth Class combat aircraft. Unfortunately it costs more than you will make in 3 generations, not including it's armaments or navigation systems. I doubt there is or will be another national aircraft that will compare to it and it's subsequent Versions for another 10 years.

Though considering the outlandish contracts given to military contractors at this point (due to federal funding) by the US Government you'd be hard pressed to find another nation with that kind of budget.
Unfortunately the info at www.af.mil which is the official government site Afaik is very small .
Basically thats all :
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Prior to its selection as winner of what was then known as the Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) competition, the F/A-22 team conducted a 54-month demonstration/ validation (dem/val) program. The effort involved the design, construction and flight testing of two YF-22 prototype aircraft. Two prototype engines, the Pratt & Whitney YF119 and General Electric YF120, also were developed and tested during the program. The dem/val program was completed in December 1990.

Much of that work was performed at Boeing in Seattle, Lockheed (now known as Lockheed Martin) facilities in Burbank, Calif., and at General Dynamics' Fort Worth, Texas, facilities (now known as Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems). The prototypes were assembled in Lockheed's Palmdale, Calif., facility and made their maiden flight from there. Since that time Lockheed's program management and aircraft assembly operations have moved to Marietta, Ga., for the EMD and production phases.

A $9.55 billion contract for Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) of the F/A-22 was awarded to the industry team of Boeing and Lockheed Martin in August 1991. Contract changes since then have elevated the contract value to approximately $11 billion. Under terms of the contract, the F/A-22 team will complete the design of the aircraft, produce production tooling for the program, and build and test nine flightworthy and two ground-test aircraft.

In February 1995, the Air Force customer approved the final design of the F/A-22 air vehicle and confirmed that the program was ready to proceed to fabrication and assembly. The Air Force plans to procure 339 F/A-22s, and production is scheduled to run through 2013.

A press release from 5/17/2004 :
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The cost (for the F/A-22) is coming down,” he said. “In fact, a year ago Dr. Marvin R. Sambur (assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition) was able to negotiate 21 planes for the price of 20.”

Secretary Roche said that Raptors now cost less than $150 million per copy. The price tag should come down even further as the program continues to stabilize, he said.

From www.globalsecurity.org :
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In mid-2002 the Defense Department was assessing the F-22 program as part of a review directed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that called for an option to reduce the quantity of program to 180 from 295. That's less than one-fourth the initial plan for 750 planes. As of 2002, DOD had spent $26 billion of the $69 billion planned for the F-22 program. All four defense committees in Congress had approved the request for $4.6 billion in fiscal 2003 to buy 23 aircraft; 10 were being purchased in FY2002.

Air Force officials announced 07 November 2002 a potential cost overrun of up to $690 million in the engineering, manufacturing and development phase of the F/A-22 program. The potential overrun appeared to be related to achieving cost and schedule in the developmental phase of the program, officials said. It is not related to its technology or performance. The aircraft remains on schedule for first aircraft delivery in 2004 and initial operational capability in 2005 as planned. The projected overrun is about 3.3 percent of the program's $20 billion development phase and about 1 percent of the program's $69.7 billion estimated total pricetag. The Pentagon approved an $876 million restructure to finance the extended development effort. The restructure sliced $763 million from the procurement profile, cutting 49 airframes from years 2004 to 2009. This decision brought the procurement profile from 325 to 276 through FY-09.


Code:

DOD's Projected Unit
Prices Before and After Restructuring
Production
--------------------------
Low-rate Full-rate
------------ ------------
Units Unit Units Unit
Estimates cost cost
-------------------------- ---- ------ ---- ------
Before restructuring 76 $142.6 362 $102.8
Restructured without 70 $200.3 368 $128.2
initiatives
Restructured with 70 $200.8 368 $ 92.4
initiatives
------------------------------------------------------



It is costy but don't you think it is worth it ?
The only Fighter which could perhaps beat a F-22 Raptor would have been the Mig 1.44 but unless they get financial aid from e.g. China they won't probably develop it further .

And what is your opinion about the Joint Strike Fighter ?
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