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Imperator Fyron said:
Hmm... I never seemed to have any problem finding non-healing things to do with clerics in AD&D 2.x, or even just plain old AD&D...
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You seem to be missing the distinction between "can" and "will" in your response there. A decent cleric player, or a decent DM, can rather successfully keep the issue from ever cropping up.
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Imperator Fyron said:
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they are less effective than a fighter of equivalent level (can't wear armor, so usually has a poorer AC, can't use as strong of weapons)
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D&D 3.x Rogues are faily proficient killing machines, as long as they have good hiding skills and can exploit sneak attacks. Also, give the rogue 2 weapons (and appropriate feats) and he can do a lot of damage with those sneak attacks...
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The fighter gets greater attack bonuses at all levels, and increased attacks earlier; usually has better strength for more damage, better constitution for greater health, and a higher hit roll to begin with. Giving the rouge appropriet feats requires later levels, which I mentioned earlier as allieviating the problem to an extent.
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Imperator Fyron said:
I don't know what you mean by can't wear armor? Heavy armors reduce dexterity bonuses significantly, so rogues can have as high of an AC as a fighter decked in plate mail can, easily. The skill penalties of the heavier "light armors" are fairly negligible. +15 from skill, -2 from armor. Not much to worry about.
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If you assume that the fighter doesn't have a decent mundane equipment set, that's true. However, a lower-level fighter decked out in full plate with a tower shield (fighters start proficient with all of that, and so take no attack penalties for it) and a dex of 12 gets 10 (base) + 8 (plate) + 4 (shield) + 1 (dex) = 23 AC; A lower-level rouge with 18 Dex (highest initial) gets a +4 dex bonus; with the heaviest armor that allows that +4 (chain shirt), the rouge is running at 10 (base) +4 (armor) +4 (dex) = 18 AC. As the rouge does not (by default, at least) start with proficencies in medium armor, heavy armor, or shields, the rouge can't take any further mundane protection without taking a penalty to their attack. The problem with sneak attacks is that until the rouge gets up high enough that the rouge can re-hide, in the middle of combat, reasonably reliably, it works once per fight. A fighter, out of the box, is proficient with essentially any weapon (s)he can lay hands on; the rouge is limited to ranged, light, or simple weapons (assuming that you don't want to take the penalty for using a weapon that the rouge isn't proficient with). Much of this is alleviated at later levels, where the rouge can have stat gains, multiple feats, class abilities, increased sneak attack damage, and sufficient skill to make sneak attacks more frequent. Of course, by that time, the fighter has even more feats, much improved attack bonuses, more attacks, and his own stat increases. A fighter is a combat specialist; a rogue is a stealth and safe passage specialist with combat ability. Sure, rouges can hold their own in fights. However, fighters specialize in it. With players of equivalent skill and characters of equivalent level, a fighter will usually be meaningfully better at combat than a rouge.