Re: Water Magic
Thanks to all!
Vicious Love: Impossible to implement? Certainly impossible to mod in Dom2, we just don’t have the tools. But are they impossible for Dom3? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Global Haze: You are right. I forgot to add a benefit. How about +1 morale bonus for friendly amphibious and aquatic units?
On the issue of the rarely-researched school, that sounds good to me. My intuition was telling me Evo 6, but my relative lack of empathy for Atlantis (which I don’t play much) impelled me toward the (timid) decision to mirror the Fire-based global spell. Sloppy move. I temporarily forgot the principle of dynamic equality and didn’t take the preferred lines of Atlantian/R’lyeh research into account. Evocation 6 is better, yes?
This might be an issue for the cost and path assignments for Water Way, as well. Once again, blindly copying a similar spell is no substitute for dynamic balance testing.
Just for grins, a revised Evocation list would look like:
Freezing Touch, Evo 0, W1
Slime, Evo 1, W1
Cold Bolt, Evo 1, W2
Geyser, Evo 1, W1F1
Acid Spray, Evo 1, W2F1
Cold BLast, Evo 2, W2
Rain, Evo 2, W2
Freezing Mist, Evo 3, W3A1
Acid Bolt, Evo 3, W2F1
Sea Squalls, Evo 3, W3
Water Strike, Evo 4, W1
Acid Rain, Evo 4, W3F1
Falling Frost, Evo 5, W3
Monsoon Rains, Evo 5, W3
Cooling Zephyr, Evo 6, W3
Global Haze, Evo 6, W5
Ice Strike, Evo 7, W2
Murdering Winter, Evo 7, W5
Acid Storm, Evo 7, W4F1
Maelstrom, Evo 8, W6
Niefel Flames, Evo 9, W5
Tidal Wave, Evo 9, W5
Don’t you think the Water-gem-generating Maelstrom at L8 is sufficient to draw the aquatic nation player up this list?
-If not, do you think Maelstrom should be a lower level?
Acid Spells: I do think that the acid-series spells (Spray, Bolt, Rain, Storm) might be used more if the Fire element was removed. In my own (solo) play, I’ve certainly never had occasion to seek them out, though I have tried them out of curiosity before going back to more efficient spells.
-Are they as much a dead-end in multiplayer games?
It might be reasonable to reconfigure the whole acid attack form to be fully water-based. After all, swamp-dweller bile breath is acidic and swamps tend to be water-themed (at least much more than fire-themed).
-Thoughts?
Rust Mist (Evo 2): How about making this E2W1 spell a W2E1 spell instead, shifting it from the Earth camp into the Water camp?
Anyone know of a hidden landmine that making this change would set off? If not, it might be worth testing.
On the cost issue, I was looking at Eyes/Fate, and the premium for a 100% kill on the Eyes was 150% of its base cost. Applying that to Second Sun gave a kill cost of 120, and that seemed too expensive. Turns out I misread Dispel—I thought it would take a base cost of 80 to get rid of Second Sun. Having reread the Dispel description, oops, not so. The base cost of Global Haze should have been in the 45-55 range (see below).
Do go on. I value your commentary.
Saber Cherry: Thank you. I always liked your jellyfish idea.
LDiCesare: On reviewing the Curse of Atlantis spell, I agree with you.
Curse of Atlantis is seriously overpowered as configured. Your suggestion about dominion is excellent.
One perception that I’ve developed over time is that it’s harder for the sea nations to amass a pile of Water gems than it is for land nations to amass a pile of their theme gem.
-Would you agree?
That said, a big boost to cost and better controls are definitely needed for this spell.
Benchmarks: The most expensive current spell is Astral Corruption at 166 Astral gems. IMO it is undesirable to match or exceed the highest cost in the best path with a Water spell of any sort.
There are two spells at 150 gems (Looming Hell, Arcane Nexus), two spells at 120 (Illwinter, Three Red Seconds), and two spells at 100 (Wish, Utterdark). I’m much more comfortable nerfing Curse of Atlantis down to a fair value of, say, 150 gems. I am partial to 150, which is like 100 for a Wish, +50% premium for being irreversible.
NTJedi: Thanks for your input.
-Have you ever been in a multiplayer game where a sea nation amassed 2,000 Water gems?
-What is the highest Water gem total you have seen amassed by a sea nation in a multiplayer game?
(BTW: Anyone should feel free to jump in on these questions. Practical benchmarks are important.)
TWEAKS & REVISIONS
Global Haze: Global. Evocation 6. Paths: W5. Cost: 50 Water gems.
A great cooling haze rises from the oceans. It blankets the world, raising the morale of friendly amphibious and aquatic creatures. The haze also reverses the effects of the Second Sun global spell (Ev 8)—the spell energies drain each other, mutually destroying both global effects.
[Design notes: Friendly aquatic and amphibious units receive a +1 morale bonus while this spell is active.]
Curse of Atlantis: Ritual. Alteration 9. Paths: W8. Cost: 150 Water gems.
One of the great ancient forbidden incantations, this spell reclaims a coastal province/island for the sea. The target province permanently sinks into the sea amid great disruption. This spell is risky to cast and much less likely to succeed in areas under hostile dominion. This spell can be cast only from an underwater laboratory.
[Design notes: This spell changes the designation of the coastal province from land to sea, permanently—this cannot be reversed. Chance of success is 90% - 10% per point of hostile dominion. Since the curse causes the whole province to sink from below, domes do not affect or stop it. A full 80% of the population dies, as do all units and commanders without water breathing ability. Province structures (Temple, Lab, etc) except Fortresses are destroyed. Province defense is set to 0. Corpse count is set to 0 after this. Unrest is set to 200% after this. Growth scale is set to +3 after this. The converted province is permanently marked with a blue magic effect marker (i.e., a dome marker). The caster is automatically feebleminded and has 3 chances at 30% for additional afflictions.]
The new configuration does several things:
-First, the higher Level and high path means there will be a long delay until the capability comes on line.
-Second, dominion as the principal defense gives the defender more control over his vulnerability.
-Third, the automatic failure chance plus the certainty of affliction (and the chance of multiple afflictions) slow down the rate at which this spell can be used.
Given that the typical multiplayer game tends to be decided in 40 turns or so, pushing the time scale for the effective use of this spell this far out may be too much control. A casting of once a game in 20 multiplayer games or twice or more per game in 50 to 100 games is the frequency benchmark I’d like to see this spell hit.
Now a question for the experienced MP’ers:
In all your MP games that included Atlantis, in what percentage of them would it have been feasible (not necessarily smart) for the Atlantian player to drop 150 Water gems into a single spell?
-What about R’lyeh?
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