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Yvelina said:
I think that if we use 'Theater of War' without some kind of victory condition, we are setting ourselves up for the ultimate turtlefest. With two very effective choke points per isle, and no diplomacy, a team can afford to stay on their isle and go crazy with hoarding items.
Not that I necessarily object to this, as I have found that an aggressive start and a mid-game onset of hoarding beats turtling... and the one race we have secured has no problem hoarding, thank you very much. But I would like to make sure that all players know what they are getting into.
As for me, I am happy with ToW + victory condition, Inland + total anihilation, or even ToW + TA - I am just warning people that the last option will promote turtling. I think that Inland will be the most exciting game, especially if our gracious host picks balanced starting positions.
By the way, Panther, what do you mean 'very few games are fought to the bitter end'? My last four games have been fought to the end, and the two I'm in right now also look as if they will produce a clear winner. It is true that none of them has ended with someone killing off the last enemy, but when all players gang up on one and five turns later admit defeat, I call that a game taken to the end.
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Actually, I could not agree with you more, Yvelina, you are correct in what you say, imho. One of the problems with Dominions is that turtling pays off because of the much too cheap clams.
I suppose what I meant about no games going to the bitter end is that exactly ZERO of my games I have played in WITHOUT VICTORY CONDITIONS went to the bitter end. I am including my game with you in that, for that game definitely did not go to the end. You are your boyfriend essentially won an allied victory in that one. That seems common in that the two top nations kill everyone else and declare a joint victory. This has happened twice now in my games, and it does prevent the intense micro required in the late game from becoming a bore.
In fact, had you and your boyfriend fought each other in that game, it would have taken a long time for one side to win since you both seemed closely balanced at the end. I can fully understand your reluctance to invest the time required to do exactly that. I would have done the very same thing you did in your shoes.
I also must agree with you that if all other players declare one nation the unbeatable winner, then that does count as the bitter end. Given that definition, then my first ever MP game did go to the end with Arch being declared the obvious winner after eventually fighing off everybody else. But none of the 10 games I played since then have gome this way. I am even on turn 125 in one of my games. But I think that is close to a stalemate in that the Pythium player might take another 70 turns to eliminate me because of mass ghost riders and a castle in every province. And because I can't see investing all the time required to play that game to that point, the remaining few players will probably declare Pythium the winner.
I do warn you that the Aku and Boron team will turtle and clam hoard like crazy in this game. With clams at a mere W2 requirement, it is gonna happen and happen and happen again. And then happen some more, for clams are the best thing you can mass produce for sure.
My son did point out that a W3S1 requirement to build a clam makes a lot more sense than a W4 requirement. We talked about it and I think he has it right. it helps the weaker nations like TC and Atrlantis, for those two races can still easily clam hoard but the stronger nations cannot get the mages so easily. Let us hope they do something like this in Dom 3.
I did assume that Petar got Pythium but you missed on Vanheim and will have to take whatever is left over at the end (Ulm perhaps?) Or did you get Vanheim and Petar must take a nation he likes less?
I sure would like for everybody to post frequently once the fighting starts and tell what is going on in this game, for I do really like the format here. I think it is one of Alneyan's best ideas yet, along with his King of the Hill game.
I like it so much that I was even thinking of buying a second copy of dominions just so my son and I could be a team were another game like this occur.