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JaM said:
Im tanknet member, i read those disscusions about Stryker. 2mil usd is too big price for light armored wheeled APC...
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Apparently without learning much...
Have I stated that the "medium brigade" is a perfect concept?
No.
Do I have to defend or prove that it is?
No.
Are you trying change the subject so you don't have to fess up to your unsupported statement regarding tracked vehicles all-encompassing superiority over wheeled vehicles in any situation and at every task?
Yes.
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About those Convoy escorts, Insurgents will stop convoy even it goues 200mph,all they need to do is block the road... I dont understand people that think that speed is better than armor.You will never be as fast as round that hit you.
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Sheesh...
Longer transport times=greater risk of attack.
Even IF I acknowledge that the M113 is protected better in a way that is relevant for this scenario (I don't really), the HEMTT's won't be...
Are you now suggesting transporting fuel, water and ammo for everyone in Iraq by M113?
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M113 can break thru, Stryker will not.
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I'm gonna give this pearl of wisdom the answer it deserves.
[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cheese.gif[/img]
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Gavin is unofficial name for M113.
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Ah gawd, the infection spreads...
Amongst a small number of people who doesn't have a clue, yes it is.
It started off by a guy named Sparks that is seeking immortality by naming the M113 Gavin, and in so achieving "immortality".
Apparently he works for UD too...
Quite sad actually...
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Humwees have same protection as M113? I dont think so.
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You do know that the M1114 is ONE model of humwee, as in "all M1114 are humwee, but not all humwee are M1114" right?
And if you actually had read what I wrote you'd have read;
Practical level of protection for the M113 and M1114 are the same. Both stop all but the worst IED fragments. Both stop 7.62mm API, neither will stop PG-7M. The M113 can stop 12.7 frontally, which is a small advantage, but the mobility advantage of the M1114 definately outweighs this.
Since the HMG threat is low, the extra aluminum armour on the M113 doesn't give any more relevant PRACTICAL protection in the Iraqi theatre.
But please, feel free to take snippets of text out of its context and makebelieve I wrote things I didn't.
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Best example is Somalia 93, where US rangers convoy had big looses just becouse they drive in them.10.moutain division saved their asses in M113...
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Not a single M1114 had been built at that time... so how did they drive them?
They didn't...
They used M988's that are light trucks with no more protection than a civvie SUV...
The M1114 is protected against small arms, most shrapnel and is mineprotected.
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There are RPG immune vehicles, best of all is Israeli Achzarit, but they have an M113 modification that is able resist RPG-7 fire (proven many times)
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You just don't get it right?
"RPG" isn't a weapon, its a TYPE of weapon. There is no vehicle existant today that is allround immune to all RPG type weapons. If you MEAN anything try to use terms that is understandable. If you load up that RPG-7 (a term not interchangeable with "RPG") with an OG-7 warhead I can show you an Austin Mini that is reasonable "proof" against it... The M1114 would be "immune", so I guess along your line of reasoning even the "humwee" is "immune to RPG"...
Achzarit is based in the T-55 while the newer Namera is based on the Merkava, so I guess I'd believe the Namera being a tad better protected.
The issue here is however your statement;
In everything, they are more versatile.
Which is still wrong.
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What is a cost of Stryker? 2 milion dolars? You can buy dozens of M113 and equip them with passive armor+SLAT array with not overloading the suspension as happends Stryker,and dont forget, that Stryker with addon armor+SLAT dont have such great mobility... With wheeled APC you must stay on the road,tracked wehicles could go offroad easilly.
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Does it matter?
You get a lot of equipment for the money. A TI OHWS and advanced C4I gear. thats the stuff costing money, hang it on a M113 and see the price soar to comparable levels.
The worlds best protected HAPC will do no-one any good when its in the wrong place...
I haven't stated that HAPC or even small tracked APC's are useless, I don't think they are, I don't have to prove that they are.
You have however stated;
In everything, they [tracked vehicles]
are more versatile [than wheeled vehicles].
You are wrong and just refuse to admit this, you are merely trying to spin-doctor your way out of the hole you've dug for yourself to sit in.
One would think I've quoted that statement of yours enough so that you'd feel obliged to either support or retract it by now...
Now start to show some sense or I will happily ignore you.