[The Panther]

As for VPs, I had planned to put in 34 pre-placed ones and remove all the existing ones. Each capitol would have one plus there would be one quite near each capitol. This ought to give all players 2 VPs each right off if they can quickly get the one close to them. I was also going to examine the positions and put the second VP in the likliest spot that each player would want to build their second fort, or (far more attractive) just ask each wyrm where they want their second VP province. The victory condition would be to capture four more players worth of VPs, or 10.

This works only with pre-placed start conditions. One thing about random starts is the unbalance. In RAND, there are some starting spots that have immense tracts of unclaimed lands in many directions while other players are literally surrounded from the very start. Getting surrounded in this game might not be as bad as it is in RAND, for you might get some sympathy votes from the Council. However, being surrounded means you cannot hope to get your share of the neutrals early on and you will be small and weak for a long time.

I was also planning on eliminating all the preplaced sites in the special provinces, or just getting rid of the specials all together to make it more balanced. I don't think the actual pre-placed start locations on the map are all that unbalanced on Orania, though I could be wrong. I even think people perhaps ought to be able to request moving their start spot by one province in any direction if they want.

I too prefer provinces as a game setting. If not for the fact that merely seiging a fort gives you the province towards a victory goal, then provinces would be a no-brainer. Perhaps other people don't see this as a problem like I do. Perhaps we can simply increase the total provinces required to win to get past this issue.

There is one other possible victory condition that makes sense: NONE! A player merely claims they have the game won and puts it to a Council vote. This is the most thematic plan but will make for a VERY long game. If we have subs waiting in the wings for when people want to (or must) quit playing or simply disappear, then this might work.

Maybe we should have a vote on the related issues of victory condition and random starts and specials.

Morkilus - What is the funny connection in Orania? I will look into it and fix it.